Yet ANOTHER Ft. Hood shooting

[Sigma]

It's currently still happening, well here we go again:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/04/02/us/for...orthood6pstory
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...-at-fort-hood/
http://www.kcentv.com/story/25146842...g-on-fort-hood
http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/...d-texas-n70276
http://www.abc-7.com/story/25147322/...d#.UzyOuVe9bL4

[xcorps]

The Army should not have guns.

[Facupay]

The Army should not have guns.

If there were armed guards in the army this wouldn't have happened.

[Caduet]

can we skip the news and go straight to flinging over gun control.

oh wait we already started 1 post in.

[Sigma]

can we skip the news and go straight to flinging over gun control.

oh wait we already started 1 post in.

I think he was being sarcastic. I think.

Anyways you would think a fort would learn and adapt after the first shooting.

[Farnan]

I think he was being sarcastic. I think.

Anyways you would think a fort would learn and adapt after the first shooting.

There are more Soldiers on Fort Hood than some militaries, and a host of civilians, you can't 100% eliminate the danger! but techniques are in place to minimize casaulties.

[xcorps]

I think he was being sarcastic. I think.

I was.

Anyways you would think a fort would learn and adapt after the first shooting.

How does an institution whose sole function is to enforce the will of the state through the application of deadly force adapt to prevent the mentally unfit from using violence as an expression of madness?

[Simon Cashmere]

I was.



How does an institution whose sole function is to enforce the will of the state through the application of deadly force adapt to prevent the mentally unfit from using violence as an expression of madness?

One of the problems is the Army doesn't have guns, often - Major 'Jihad' Nidal Hassan shot up Fort Hood with an FN 57, which is a private firearm, not US military kit, and it was the cops that shot him not the Army. The army is so careful with weapons (as they have to be) that people are only armed when they have to be, and hence, while it seems incongruous most of the service personnel walking around are not armed.

My own view is that officers should wear their sidearms on base. At least however at US bases, the sentries are armed.

In Australia, because of budget cuts, some fat slob private security guard stands out the front, without a gun on the front gate. There are other problems too but I'd rather not say what they are because they are security sensitive. Base security is something that militaries often fail at.

[IZob]

One of the problems is the Army doesn't have guns, often - Major 'Jihad' Nidal Hassan shot up Fort Hood with an FN 57, which is a private firearm, not US military kit, and it was the cops that shot him not the Army. The army is so careful with weapons (as they have to be) that people are only armed when they have to be, and hence, while it seems incongruous most of the service personnel walking around are not armed.

My own view is that officers should wear their sidearms on base. At least however at US bases, the sentries are armed.

In Australia, because of budget cuts, some fat slob private security guard stands out the front, without a gun on the front gate. There are other problems too but I'd rather not say what they are because they are security sensitive. Base security is something that militaries often fail at.

Australian military bases don't need their security personal or officers to be armed like how you suggested, because unlike America, there are no soldier on soldier conflicts involving weapons. Because unlike America, not everyone in Australia owns a gun. Because unlike America, Australia doesn't have gun stores in your everyday supermarket.

[Jom]

One of the problems is the Army doesn't have guns, often - Major 'Jihad' Nidal Hassan shot up Fort Hood with an FN 57, which is a private firearm, not US military kit, and it was the cops that shot him not the Army. The army is so careful with weapons (as they have to be) that people are only armed when they have to be, and hence, while it seems incongruous most of the service personnel walking around are not armed.

My own view is that officers should wear their sidearms on base. At least however at US bases, the sentries are armed.

There's a funny logical disconnect there, because Hassan was a Major, so he would have had even easier access to firearms under your proposal.

Also, imagine the chaos that would take place if there were someone going around shooting people and every officer were allowed a firearm and began firing back - the MPs and/or civilian police would have no idea who the real shooter was or what was happening. If only a very select few are allowed firearms, it makes it very easy to quickly see who shouldn't have one and identify a shooter.

[xcorps]

You are in the position of being forced to accept the logical conclusion that if the Army didn't have guns, it's members could not shoot people.

Imagine.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

I've given up on the gun debate and decided to simply smoke a cigar and watch it burn... much like the world.

[icydawgfish]

I'm in the navy and this comes just a week after a civilian snuck on board a destroyer in Norfolk, disarmed the military policeman standing watch on the brow and killed him. After that happened my base's security department was offering amnesty for anyone with firearms on base (barracks or on the ship) to register them at and turn them in for storage at the base armory.

[Phier]

I'm in the navy and this comes just a week after a civilian snuck on board a destroyer in Norfolk, disarmed the military policeman standing watch on the brow and killed him.

I don't get how the above....

Would have anything to do with the below.

After that happened my base's security department was offering amnesty for anyone with firearms on base (barracks or on the ship) to register them at and turn them in for storage at the base armory.

[Seether]

I'm in the navy and this comes just a week after a civilian snuck on board a destroyer in Norfolk, disarmed the military policeman standing watch on the brow and killed him. After that happened my base's security department was offering amnesty for anyone with firearms on base (barracks or on the ship) to register them at and turn them in for storage at the base armory.

That's not what happened. For starters, he didn't sneak on board. He came onboard the ship via the ECP, like everyone else. At the ECP he was challenged by the Officer of the Deck and the Petty Officer of the Watch (female, rate unknown, ASF) who would not let him onboard because he didn't have authorization. He then attacked the OOD and beat him up while the PotW stood there and watched, then when she finally drew down on him, he attacked and disarmed her. Then when the Chief of the Guard (male, MA2) tried to come to her rescue, he was shot and killed. The shooter was then shot and killed by both the Topside Rover and Chief of the Guard-UI.

How does one sneak onto a destroyer? Was there no OOD at the gangway, or did he shimmy up the hawsepipe?

Didn't happen that way. See above

[xcorps]

How does one sneak onto a destroyer? Was there no OOD at the gangway, or did he shimmy up the hawsepipe?

[Simon Cashmere]

Well that might be a good theory, except, the Commonwealth arrested a whole heap of people who were charged and convicted of intending to invade Holsworthy Army Base, with firearms, to do an allah akbar jihad 'just like America'. We cannot count on the security services to always catch people before they act.

Unlike you, I'm guessing, while an Australian citizen, I've lived in America. The average Australian's view of firearms being like radioactive waste that burns you if you handle it really is childish and childlike, as if only some theoretical aduilts somewhere else are the only ones allowed to have firearms, being I suppose the Police? but not the army either in your view.

The gun control thing is a whole separate question to the civilian mass shooting act of terror like Mumbai. Major Hassan committed his acts, not because of the gun laws -but because he was an Islamic extremist and a traitor.

[Farnan]

Some more info:

The Soldier was a member of the Warrior Transition Unit (WTU). The WTU deals with Soldiers who have significant physical or mental issues that require either transition from the military (following treatment) or at the minimum long term care before returning to the force. Being in the WTU DOES NOT mean you have deployed, and not all those who have deployed or even all those in the WTU who deployed suffer from PTSD.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

Ivan Lopez? So either it was a Russian mole or a coyote.

[AgentGB]

Ivan Lopez? So either it was a Russian mole or a coyote.

Yuri's revenge unit, trained wrong unit while trying to gain access to clone units.