Australians Seek to Build Memorial for "Comfort Women", Many Japanese Respond 'OH HELL NO'.

[s.rwitt]

http://www.sbs.com.au/news/article/2...-statue-sydney

As the title says, a group of Chinese, Koreans, and Australians are seeking to erect a memorial to the estimated 200,000 women forced into prostitution by the Japanese Imperial Army before and during WW2. As they tend to do when someone so much as mentions Japanese actions in WW2 with anything less than absolute reverence, many Japanese have lost their collective and have begun an email campaign to condemn and stop the memorial from coming to fruition while some, including the Prime Minister, have suggested that the women were willing participants in their own systematic gang-rape.

Why do the Japanese seem to have such a more difficult time coming to terms with what their country did in the 30's and 40's than the Germans? Was it the bomb? It was the bomb, wasn't it?

[Vanoi]

Japan can't seem to get over its WW2 past. This isn't the first time Japan has been unwilling to admit responsibility for some of the war crimes it did during the war. And it unfortunately won't be the last.

[Exarch]

you can thank the right wingers like Abe for that; the rest of the Japanese people aren't party to those ards

though tbh, this is clearly a systemic problem as well since Japanese textbooks consistently gloss over their country's atrocities whereas in Germany, the sins of the Nazis are emphasized over and over again

[Vanoi]

Abe and his party are causing unnecessary tensions between Japan, South Korea, China, and other South-East Asian countries. Vsiting shrines dedicated to war criminals will win you no friends. I suspect Chinese and Japanese relations would be much better if Japan got over its WW2 past.

[Lord of Nihilism]

This all seems trivial to me. WW2 ended like what, 60+ years ago? Not a lot of people who fought in those wars are alive now, and even their numbers are dwindling day after day. It's time to let these grievances be settled for good and move forward.

[Garbarsardar]

This all seems trivial to me. WW2 ended like what, 60+ years ago? Not a lot of people who fought in those wars are alive now, and even their numbers are dwindling day after day. It's time to let these grievances be settled for good and move forward.

I think you have a unique interpretation of what "forward" is. First off had you read the OP, you would see it's not about people that "fought in these wars" (the second world wars, I take it). It is about women who were raped in "these wars" many of them being alive since many were raped at the age of 12. It is about the state of denial that exists in Japanese history books, and the state of evasiveness that exists in Japanese politics.

So, no.

Let's not move forward in a direction that ignores history and avoids to face complex realities that still inform current politics in the same area.

[Lord of Nihilism]

I think you have a unique interpretation of what "forward" is. First off had you read the OP, you would see it's not about people that "fought in these wars" (the second world wars, I take it). It is about women who were raped in "these wars" many of them being alive since many were raped at the age of 12. It is about the state of denial that exists in Japanese history books, and the state of evasiveness that exists in Japanese politics.

So, no.

Let's not move forward in a direction that ignores history and avoids to face complex realities that still inform current politics in the same area.

No, my interpretation of "moving forward' is that people shouldn't dwell on the past and just proceed with their lives. Honestly, what is this memorial going to accomplish? WW2 was fought using very unclean methods and no one in that conflict can claim the moral high ground, so with that in mind, why exactly do we need a memorial for such incidents? What's done is done basically and no amount of memorials can change what happened in WW2.

We also need to take into consideration cultural differences. What Western people might perceive as wrong, might not be viewed the same in the eyes of Eastern people/Japanese people.

My main point though is that it's 2014; World War 2 lasted from 1939-45 so I think it's time that everyone just accept what happened in WW2, and chalk it up as a lesson for future wars. Building memorials isn't going to change what happened....unless those memorials have time travel.

[Garbarsardar]

No, my interpretation of "moving forward' is that people shouldn't dwell on the past and just proceed with their lives.

I am pretty certain that we can chew gum and walk at the walk time. We can proceed with our lives and learn from the past. Actually we can proceed with our lives much better if we have a rudimentary understanding of history.

Honestly, what is this memorial going to accomplish?

Remind us? "Lest we forget" etc.

WW2 was fought using very unclean methods and no one in that conflict can claim the moral high ground, so with that in mind, why exactly do we need a memorial for such incidents?

I'm pretty sure that 12 year old girls who were raped can claim a very high ground. But it is not about "lording it" over the Japanese. It is about historical memory.

What's done is done basically and no amount of memorials can change what happened in WW2.

That is why we call it a memorial and not a change-orial.

We also need to take into consideration cultural differences. What Western people might perceive as wrong, might not be viewed the same in the eyes of Eastern people/Japanese people.

Did you miss the part where the Korean/Chinese communities erect this memorial? Or do you willfully ignore it? Or do you believe that "Japanese/Eastern people" consider rape a a basically "good thing"? Or do you believe Koreans and Chinese are "Western people"

My main point though is that it's 2014;

We are in perfect agreement

World War 2 lasted from 1939-45

Truer words have never been uttered here

so I think it's time that everyone just accept what happened in WW2, and chalk it up as a lesson for future wars.

So, a lesson consists of things you basically "chalk up"? Strange teaching methods you have, my friend.

Building memorials isn't going to change what happened....unless those memorials have time travel.

We'll have to put up a sign:
This memorial is unable to change the past as our Einstein-Rosen bridge experiences some technical difficulties.

[Lord of Nihilism]

I am pretty certain that we can chew gum and walk at the walk time. We can proceed with our lives and learn from the past. Actually we can proceed with our lives much better if we have a rudimentary understanding of history.



Remind us? "Lest we forget" etc.



I'm pretty sure that 12 year old girls who were raped can claim a very high ground. But it is not about "lording it" over the Japanese. It is about historical memory.



That is why we call it a memorial and not a change-orial.



Did you miss the part where the Korean/Chinese communities erect this memorial? Or do you willfully ignore it? Or do you believe that "Japanese/Eastern people" consider rape a a basically "good thing"? Or do you believe Koreans and Chinese are "Western people"



We are in perfect agreement



Truer words have never been uttered here



So, a lesson consists of things you basically "chalk up"? Strange teaching methods you have, my friend.



We'll have to put up a sign:
This memorial is unable to change the past as our Einstein-Rosen bridge experiences some technical difficulties.

Yes, we can proceed with our lives if we have a rudimentary understanding of world history, you'll get no argument from me there. What i'm questioning is why a memorial needs to be built? Are history books and books written by historians not good enough? Do we need to erect a marbled statue for every time an ethnic group was abused, killed and etc? No, it's ridiculous and as I said, it's been 60+ years. People don't seem to blame current day Germans for what Germany did in WW2, so likewise we shouldn't blame the japanese for what the Japanese in WW2 did.

It honestly doesn't matter if a Chinese or Korean group wants a memorial. If I was able to actually contact them, I would tell them that WW2 ended 60+ years and ago and it's time to stop feuding over trivial issues.

There's also some facts to take into consideration, while there were comfort women in the Japanese Imperial Army, several historians including Ikuhiko Hata who studied at Tokyo University, and was a guest Professor for other universities including Princeton university have stated that women weren't forced to be comfort women, but did so by choice; while it wouldn't be surprising if a number of Japanese soldiers abused these comfort women, it happened mostly in rogue units/units that had basically no training and weren't representative of the actual Japanese Imperial Army, who was held in high regards by Western nations.

There's also the fact that this is going to be built in Australia. Why Australia of all places? Maybe a handful of Australian women were killed in WW2, but are we seriously going to construct a memorial for a handful of Australian women who were killed? The Dutch probably had more women who were killed by the Japanese in WW2, yet they haven't built a memorial I think.

[Stavroforos]

I'm confused as to why Australians are the ones building this memorial. Seems to be a bad move by all sides involved, and I wouldn't be surprised if xenophobia towards the Japanese played a role in Australia choosing to commemorate something it wasn't a victim of.

[s.rwitt]

I'm confused as to why Australians are the ones building this memorial.

Because it's led by the Chinese and Korean communities in Sydney.

[Stavroforos]

Because it's led by the Chinese and Korean communities in Sydney.

Makes sense. Still, I wouldn't want to see any Australian public funding going into this, and still don't see why such a memorial should be in Australia and no China or Korea. Ideally such a memorial would be in Japan, but obviously they still have problems accepting their war guilt.

[Simon Cashmere]

I'm confused as to why Australians are the ones building this memorial. Seems to be a bad move by all sides involved, and I wouldn't be surprised if xenophobia towards the Japanese played a role in Australia choosing to commemorate something it wasn't a victim of.

That's not quite true. Australian women were forced into sexual slavery during the war, after being captured in Singapore. Other Australian women were machine gunned or beheaded when captured by the Japanese.

Australia was very much a victim of Japan.

New Guinea was under our control at the time they invaded. Revisionist history likes to say that the Japanese never ever ever ever were going to invade Australia. But you don't yomp through thousands of miles of dense jungle just to take over somewhere where even the lizards dont go, I mean New Guinea is remote and sparse now, imagine in 1941-1945. They were headed here for sure, only the US Navy blew them to pieces in the Battle of the Coral Sea and Midway, so their capability to invade anywhere was pretty much lost.

If people want to build a memorial why not. Other people can build something that says there should be no memorial. The truth is that the Japanese did such terrible things to so many people in World War II, completely unnecessary cruelty and suffering to prisoners of war and civilian detainees. Including the 'comfort women'. The only thing we owe the Japanese is the truth.

[s.rwitt]

I'm sure the people trying to get this statue built would be fine with one existing in China, Korea, or Japan as well.

[Stavroforos]

I'm sure the people trying to get this statute built would be fine with one existing in China, Korea, or Japan as well.

But why should Australians want this memorial in their country? It would be like putting a memorial about Vietnam War in Greece.

[s.rwitt]

But why should Australians want this memorial in their country? It would be like putting a memorial about Vietnam War in Greece.

Because, as the article says, there were some Australian women who were forced into sex slavery alongside Chinese and Korean women. Regardless, requiring the entire country to agree before you can build a memorial would be a pretty...strange...precedent.

[Stavroforos]

Because, as the article says, there were some Australian women who were forced into sex slavery alongside Chinese and Korean women. Regardless, requiring the entire country to agree before you can build a memorial would be a pretty...strange...precedent.

Well I'm not suggesting the entire country agree, but generally the purpose of memorial is not served in a country which wasn't particularly involved in whatever event is being memorialized. As far as I can tell, the number of women involved is unknown, and it seems most of the European women were Dutch. If there was a number of Australian women affected by this, sure, build a memorial, but otherwise, why build a memorial about something that doesn't concern you?

[Markas]

Well I'm not suggesting the entire country agree, but generally the purpose of memorial is not served in a country which wasn't particularly involved in whatever event is being memorialized. As far as I can tell, the number of women involved is unknown, and it seems most of the European women were Dutch. If there was a number of Australian women affected by this, sure, build a memorial, but otherwise, why build a memorial about something that doesn't concern you?

Well it's an Australia based group (United Chinese Korean Alliance Against Japanese Warcrimes) and the reasoning is-

"I was just speaking to my mother about this. She pointed out that in our country and in our cities we have so many monuments to men who have suffered and fought in war. And we don't really have much for women who have fought in war, and we certainly do not have any statues or monuments to remember women who have been raped in war. And I think therefore that to put something like this is Strathfield is really progressive and really pertinent. And it would mean alot to alot of members of the community not just to to members of the..., people who are connected directly to Japan or Korea. I think it has a broader reach."

I have no idea where Strathfield is in Sydney. Not entirely convinced by the vague reasoning either but if they want to, why not? I don't know if China or Korea has any such monuments but politics may play a little harder there.

EDIT- it's a suburb with 20,000.

[s.rwitt]

Today I learned that the point of memorials is to change the past.

[IZob]

Today I learned that the point of memorials is to change the past.

Wut? Don't you mean "change the future". They server as a lesson for future generations.