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  1. #1

    Default Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Dang, that was a whole lot of fun. I cheated and was playing a short vanilla campaign on med/med to see how quickly I could end it, but I still ended at 218. Some things I noticed:

    1. I never unlocked the Aiwothiutha Horseguards (or however you spell it). My Rhovanion cities/castles never got big enough to make them, even by turn 218 and after making Uldonovan my capital. Is this normal? It feels almost too late to matter since I had basically won and was still nowhere close to unlocking them. Perhaps long campaigns give you enough time to recruit them, but this is my first run as Dale.

    2. I was making buckets of money by the end of the campaign, producing troops/buildings endlessly and still making profit. The Rhun Sea area is loaded and its crazy how quickly I could support my armies. I found that after establishing a strong early foothold and economy, finishing Rhun was simply a formality. Lack of revenge stacks is sure nice, I see why they need them on VH/VH.

    3. After Rhun, I had enough money to keep Harad and the Dwarves-Silvan Elves at a ceasefire (I didn't need to be dragged into a war by Esgaroth and Dale, risking two big cities). This let me focus exlusively on Mordor and I ended the game with Minas Morgul as my last territory, wiping them out. Very satisfying to say the least

    4. It is cool to see how Dale's army progression evolved over time. I liked that I didn't rely on just 3 units at the start of the game like the dwarf/elf factions and made full use of the varied infantry. Rivermen were really cool, I wish there had been a higher level version of them. I ended up swapping them and the Hearthmen for Swordsmen and Gaughdraughts, leaning towards a heavy infantry build (especially with Bardian Marksmen as generals units, I recruited few archer units in comparison to my infantry). The Barding Hird, Swordmasters, and Earls coming out of Esgaroth solidified the elite infantry with Mounted Earl and Dale Cavalry support. Sadly, I never got the culture high enough in Barad Dur or The Black Gate to recruit more (but I will if I keep playing ).

    5. Even on short and med/med this campaign was pretty epic. The Dwarves annihilated the OotMM pretty early (which is why they kept fighting the Silvan Elves) but never conquered Moria. That means the Balrog never got released to my pleasure, but I wanted to see the Kazad Dum guard. I'm not sure why the Dwarves kept fighting the elves, though, as even with a reuinfied Arnor the OoG still held Gundabad and parts of the northern mountains. Of the remaining evil factions, only Harad had any real presence. OoG and Isenguard were both alive, though pretty contained. I only think they held their own because attacks on their capitals gave them free stacks. King Bard was slain after a revenge stack re-took the Black Gate and set me back a few turns in conquering Moria. Lord Bain was slain by a surprise force from Harad attacking him in Rhun, so sadly neither of my starting family tree got to see the game to its end. Instead, Hawain the Fat and his son Hawar the Cuckold ended up conquering Mordor

    Definitely a fun campaign though, I loved it.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    I don't think anyone in the history of TATW has recruited the Horseguard before But Dale is probably one of the most satisfying campaigns I've ever had. I think they're the most balanced faction in terms of difficulty and roster.....unless you play MOS of course

  3. #3

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Sounds fun, darcsabre.
    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyPistol View Post
    I don't think anyone in the history of TATW has recruited the Horseguard before But Dale is probably one of the most satisfying campaigns I've ever had. I think they're the most balanced faction in terms of difficulty and roster.....unless you play MOS of course
    I was just thinking to start a Dale campaign in MOS... what is the issue with them in that mod?

  4. #4

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by darcsabre View Post
    Hawain the Fat and his son Hawar the Cuckold ended up conquering Mordor
    Oh good lord. I usually get my generals killed when they get the Cuckold trait, or a similarly embarrassing trait. Were they all round awful generals or just have a few bad qualities that stuck out? Some screenshots of their traits might be amusing.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Dale is a very enjoyable campaign for me due to their map position. It's a pretty straightforward linear chain of conquers going around each side of the lake. You don't spend a lot of time worrying about how to garrison a large, spread out front. It's almost mentally relaxing. On the other hand the battles are very technically demanding. So much maneuver warfare. Cavalry vs skirmishers; everyone is running constantly. And just when you aren't looking those gold general cavalry get into your archers

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by DrDragun View Post
    And just when you aren't looking those gold general cavalry get into your archers
    This! This so much!
    Those pesky Rhûn bodyguards sometimes seem to appear out of nothing and they absolutely wreck everything in their path.
    Aside from that, Dale's archers make short work of pretty much all units that Rhûn can throw at you, so that evens the score a little.
    And the fact that you can swarm them with endless stacks of crappy militia makes their high-tier infantry and balcoth tribesmen next to useless.

    And @ Gurak:
    There is nothing wrong with Dale in MOS, from what I can see in my own campaign anyway. Maybe LP means that other factions are more balanced in MOS, or that Rhûn heavies/Dale archers are stronger in MOS. But seriously, playing Dale now and absolutely loving it, try it!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurak View Post
    Sounds fun, darcsabre.

    I was just thinking to start a Dale campaign in MOS... what is the issue with them in that mod?
    Quote Originally Posted by Greymane View Post
    And @ Gurak:
    There is nothing wrong with Dale in MOS, from what I can see in my own campaign anyway. Maybe LP means that other factions are more balanced in MOS, or that Rhûn heavies/Dale archers are stronger in MOS. But seriously, playing Dale now and absolutely loving it, try it!
    the issue with Dale in MOS is that the only major change is the decrease in usefulness of the Hearth Watchman That and with the map change and Rhun's beautiful, BEAUTIFUL new units (Rhun fanboy here ) You lose a lot of the edge your archers have in Vanilla. It becomes a more rushed campaign, as you want to get rid of Rhun before Mordor finishes off Gondor and comes for you.

    Again, its not so much Rhun that's the problem, they're still as much a threat as in vanilla, except now that seige battles are more even since the Hash Rim obliterate any of your pre-Barding Hird units. The real problem is balancing an invasion of Rhun and defending against Mordor. It really strains your economy keeping a stack to defend against possible Mordor attacks while having another 1-2 stacks taking an offensive against Rhun.

    Also, I've found a lot of Thul-Rim (....the flamethrowers) generals that make siege battles extremely difficult early on.

    Still, with all the scripts and map change in MOS, Dale is much more enjoyable. I love Dwarves of the Oakenshield, and Rhun MOS doesn't have the tendency to Balchoth-stack spam you as they did in Vanilla. Its an improved, although harder game

    HOWEVER.....I've still never recruited those damn Horseguards

  8. #8

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by LuckyPistol View Post
    the issue with Dale in MOS is that the only major change is the decrease in usefulness of the Hearth Watchman That and with the map change and Rhun's beautiful, BEAUTIFUL new units (Rhun fanboy here ) You lose a lot of the edge your archers have in Vanilla. It becomes a more rushed campaign, as you want to get rid of Rhun before Mordor finishes off Gondor and comes for you.

    Again, its not so much Rhun that's the problem, they're still as much a threat as in vanilla, except now that seige battles are more even since the Hash Rim obliterate any of your pre-Barding Hird units. The real problem is balancing an invasion of Rhun and defending against Mordor. It really strains your economy keeping a stack to defend against possible Mordor attacks while having another 1-2 stacks taking an offensive against Rhun.

    Also, I've found a lot of Thul-Rim (....the flamethrowers) generals that make siege battles extremely difficult early on.

    Still, with all the scripts and map change in MOS, Dale is much more enjoyable. I love Dwarves of the Oakenshield, and Rhun MOS doesn't have the tendency to Balchoth-stack spam you as they did in Vanilla. Its an improved, although harder game

    HOWEVER.....I've still never recruited those damn Horseguards
    Nice summary and recommendation.
    Very tempted to give them a shot. The problem with this mod is there are just too many cool faction options to choose from!

  9. #9

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by Gurak View Post
    Nice summary and recommendation.
    Very tempted to give them a shot. The problem with this mod is there are just too many cool faction options to choose from!
    That is correct

    However, give Dale a run. MOS does play differently than Vanilla, but don't go overboard on the scripts or you could get overwhelmed.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by darcsabre View Post
    Dang, that was a whole lot of fun. I cheated and was playing a short vanilla campaign on med/med to see how quickly I could end it, but I still ended at 218. Some things I noticed:

    1. I never unlocked the Aiwothiutha Horseguards (or however you spell it). My Rhovanion cities/castles never got big enough to make them, even by turn 218 and after making Uldonovan my capital. Is this normal? It feels almost too late to matter since I had basically won and was still nowhere close to unlocking them. Perhaps long campaigns give you enough time to recruit them, but this is my first run as Dale.

    2. I was making buckets of money by the end of the campaign, producing troops/buildings endlessly and still making profit. The Rhun Sea area is loaded and its crazy how quickly I could support my armies. I found that after establishing a strong early foothold and economy, finishing Rhun was simply a formality. Lack of revenge stacks is sure nice, I see why they need them on VH/VH.

    3. After Rhun, I had enough money to keep Harad and the Dwarves-Silvan Elves at a ceasefire (I didn't need to be dragged into a war by Esgaroth and Dale, risking two big cities). This let me focus exlusively on Mordor and I ended the game with Minas Morgul as my last territory, wiping them out. Very satisfying to say the least

    4. It is cool to see how Dale's army progression evolved over time. I liked that I didn't rely on just 3 units at the start of the game like the dwarf/elf factions and made full use of the varied infantry. Rivermen were really cool, I wish there had been a higher level version of them. I ended up swapping them and the Hearthmen for Swordsmen and Gaughdraughts, leaning towards a heavy infantry build (especially with Bardian Marksmen as generals units, I recruited few archer units in comparison to my infantry). The Barding Hird, Swordmasters, and Earls coming out of Esgaroth solidified the elite infantry with Mounted Earl and Dale Cavalry support. Sadly, I never got the culture high enough in Barad Dur or The Black Gate to recruit more (but I will if I keep playing ).

    5. Even on short and med/med this campaign was pretty epic. The Dwarves annihilated the OotMM pretty early (which is why they kept fighting the Silvan Elves) but never conquered Moria. That means the Balrog never got released to my pleasure, but I wanted to see the Kazad Dum guard. I'm not sure why the Dwarves kept fighting the elves, though, as even with a reuinfied Arnor the OoG still held Gundabad and parts of the northern mountains. Of the remaining evil factions, only Harad had any real presence. OoG and Isenguard were both alive, though pretty contained. I only think they held their own because attacks on their capitals gave them free stacks. King Bard was slain after a revenge stack re-took the Black Gate and set me back a few turns in conquering Moria. Lord Bain was slain by a surprise force from Harad attacking him in Rhun, so sadly neither of my starting family tree got to see the game to its end. Instead, Hawain the Fat and his son Hawar the Cuckold ended up conquering Mordor

    Definitely a fun campaign though, I loved it.
    welcome to the club. not many players get through an entire campaign, despite it being short or whatever. Now, if you are up to the challenge, i recommend MOS. it may be a to install but it is most definitely worth it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jean=A=Luc View Post
    What the hell is wrong with you people?

  11. #11
    StealthFox's Avatar Consensus Achieved
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    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    First time playing as Dale is best.

  12. #12
    Ngugi's Avatar TATW & Albion Local Mod
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    Default Re: Just finished my first campaign as Dale; some reflections

    Quote Originally Posted by StealthFox View Post
    First time playing as Dale is best.
    Think I got my ass whipped the first time I played them ^^

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