Hardest factions to play ?

[tono4850]

So what´s the hardest faction in RS2 ? In EB Pontus and Armenia were quite hard.

[Rijul.J.Ballal]

Egypt...their color doesn't let me feel manly...

[Ryousan]

That would be Bithynia, it´s unit roster it´s quite limited in some aspects: it lacks any form of heavy lance cavalry, its heavy infantery it´s also quite weak in comparison to, let´s say, neighbouring Pontus and Pergamon(I have nohing against the elite thracians but against missiles units they are made of tissue paper), and while Bithynian Hoplitai and it´s unique levy phalangites are a good asset you have to work hard ot make it work, and that goes double when the garrison scripts kick in: they just have little counter to the pergamene cataphracts or the elite phalanx units of other factions(such as Macedonia, the Seleucids and Pontus) and the lack of dedicated heavy cavalry prevents you from using hammer and anvil tactics to it´s full potential

[Alavaria]

Does Bithnia have access to slingers, they counter cataphracts and are a useful hammer...


I usually look for three things (in order):
1. Access to pikes
2. Siege engines (for assaulting)
3. Access to slingers

Every faction actually can get pikes and slingers in AOR, however for some (eg Cimbri, Galleci) getting to pike land can be a slow process. However, only some factions have access to (stone throwing siege) ballistae. Barbarians, Nomads and some others simply have no ability to use these.

With Levy Pikemen, generic slingers and whatever random light infantry, you can take over the world. Siege engines make it much much easier.

You don't need the pikes if you're on Medium (perhaps Hard) battle difficulty. But they will still help a lot for various reasons.


For fun I've been thinking about that sort of army on Rome. Or perhaps using Carthage to uberstomp Rome really fast. Syracuse, Bythinia, Pergamon etc are also in great spots and near to Rome. Rome with no legionaries or anything would be hilarious

[Ryousan]

The problem is that Bithynia´s neighbours have Slingers, phalangites, random light infantery AND BETTER STUFF. While I agree that you can win pretty much everything with some some units and your wits a decent roster usually makes things easier, and while Bithynia´s has decent light/medium phalangites and good light/medium infantery it simply lacks the elite and more professional units that all the pother hellenistic factiosn can field and it´s quite detrimental as two units Agema/Arguraspides Phalangites can easily engage four of your own phalanxes and due to the fact you little to counter the Argyraspides Thorakites and Hyspaspistai your random light infantery and slingers are probably goind to ahve a hard time doing their respective jobs. And thats without counting the whole cavalry issue

So, let´s be honest while you can conquer the whole world using nothing but thureophroi, ballearic slingers and perhaps some siege engines (as I just did once) it´s a lot harder and (at least for me) a lot less fun. If we compare Bythinia to it´s swap faction brother the Bosporan Kingdom, the latter just puts the former to shame in terms of both diversity and efficiency(at least, in my opinion)

[Alavaria]

If you mean "hardest faction around Bythinia" then perhaps some clarification would be nice.

If you're talking hardest between all factions, ones without siege units are probably harder, due to having to fight all the garrison script forces. This is worse if you are on 1-turn, at least before you have enough units on the field to be able to rotate them back for retraining.

I frequently observe multiple units of enemy elite pikemen (agema, silver shields, etc) being held onto long enough by Levy Pikemen such that all the flank forces can be defeated. And then, even if the phalanx has punched through mine (it takes a while even on Very Hard), they are dead due to being shot at in the back by slingers or other missile troops. In general, elite pikes don't kill that much faster than normal pikes, they gain an advantage in Defense Skill and Armor. So it's fine however good they are, the important thing is to clear your flanks and then flank/rear shoot them for victory.

Occasionally, the AI's units attack at a weird angle and have great difficulty moving because one soldier in the corner is attacking while everyone else has to stand rigidly in formation doing nothing. But usually multiple units will pile on top of one another which makes it easier for the AI to punch through. However, the most dangerous is if pike units attack head on all along the line, as you will have multiple breaches.

[Dramatic Cat]

Hmm, I agree that Bythinia looks quite the challenge but IMO some tough campaigns would also be Massalia or Syracuse.
And that's because they're both 1-settlement kingdoms, and both are at the door-step of Rome. Although both have awesome hoplites with god-like morale and defense stats and extremely powerful cavalry, neither are able to crank more than a couple stacks to defend themselves and thus neither would stand the bajillion-legions-per-turn Roman onslaught. Add some angry Greeks/barbarians that will also send their stacks at you every few turns..
Fun, right?
Right?

That's just me though. I've only tried Syracuse (H/H) in the past but quitted the campaign like 20 turns in when I lost Syracuse to 4 Roman stacks and my pathetic holdings in Sparta and Carthage would never allow me to retake it, let alone hold those settlements.

[Alavaria]

Syracuse has nice fast access to Roman settlements it can remove from Roman hands, and additionally has lowered distance to capital (well you can always move capital, though having corruption in your treasury settlement is annoying).

I do note the AI behaves rather hilariously if two thirds or so of your army are "skirmishers" (Syracuse Levy Theurophoroi, some Greek Slingers). Eg:

1: General
1: Horse (preferably heavy) << can use another general unit for this
1: Siege engine (preferably the best one)
4: Slingers (preferably Rhodian, otherwise your standard Greek Slinger will do)
13: Syracuse Levy Theurophoroi

Such that the AI sees a two units of horse, one of siege and 17 skirmishers =D

Note: Any settlement can quickly produce those levy theurophoroi in two turns, as they are tier 1 units. This means on the "realistic" 1 turn, Syracuse will take a year to train your 36 men for the Large Lithobolos, while each random village will train in that year 400 Syracusean Levy Theurophoroi. Preprare to start clicking. Slingers are Tier 2, but you should not be getting them killed! I would also recommend swapping out for 5 or 6 units of Levy Pikes as soon as you can start producing them.

Since you will not be using your best facilities just to train siege engines, you should prioritize slingers next, as getting them XP and upgrades from the very start is worthwhile. Horse are last, really light horse will do just fine for the "back tap to rout" though heavier is better as they might actually be able to kill skirmishers on Very Hard.

(The ranged horse might be better, actually... as missiles are more effective, and you can have them shoot into the enemy back even in rather risky situations, since they can be fairly easily trained (They are tier 2 like greek slingers of Syracuse)

If you like having AI-controlled reinforcements, a few units of infantry (to hold the captain) with a ton of cheap javelin horsemen (who will tend to try and skirmish on their own) will treat you decently well. Ideally they start hitting just as you are ready to begin flanking, though if you are still maneuvering or so on, they will help make that easier by relieving pressure on your flanks. Worn down units of horse work well as a "minimal garrison" force (when you don't actually need garrisons for public order) or of course ideal scouts or bait fort fodder.


I'm setting up stuff, I would imagine a build like:
1) Ballista -> Slinger (x4) -> Siege Ballista (x2) for Syracuse would work... using new settlements to first train Levy Theurophoroi then Slingers, so that Syracuse can prepare for Siege Ballista. This means Force #1 clears Sicily, heads across the south part of Italy, then goes east to Macedon (wherein we find pikes), while Force #2 (equipped with Siege Ballista) will go up the west taking Capua/Roma. A third force will take on Carthago and the southern settlements ... Which doesn't seem the most ideal, the African holdings are probably easier to hold on to and safer to grab early on (plus there's like 4 settlements there).

2) An alternative is to have the first Siege Ballistae go whack Carthago, delaying until the Third force to actually murder Rome properly (it's not a big risk, as on 1-turn, Roma etc can only train one unit per turn). Additionally, the AI doesn't bounce back as quickly from any losses to Hannibal because, again, 1-turn.

3) An even faster build would use 1 Ballistae to clear Sicily, just siege&assault Carthago conventionally (use the Ballista for the other three African settlements), and have one Siege ballistae on Second Force which attacks up the west of Italy. This means waiting until Third Force to actually start going for pikes (may not be such a risk, as again, the AI's recruiting is limited, and the less you attack, that's less magical revenge stacks). You may want more Siege Ballistae, if you are going to assault Carthago repeatedly, though again, the starting stack, a revenge stack, and then Carthage can only train a unit per turn from three settlements which are VERY VERY far away by land or by sea. Defending Africa shouldn't be an issue for you

To deal with Roman stacks, the bait fort, or perhaps the standing on river crossings/bridges strategy is ideal. Especially if you are pushing near Roma and are suddenly hip-deep in Romans, a river crossing is your best friend.

Hmm, I agree that Bythinia looks quite the challenge but IMO some tough campaigns would also be Massalia or Syracuse.
And that's because they're both 1-settlement kingdoms, and both are at the door-step of Rome. Although both have awesome hoplites with god-like morale and defense stats and extremely powerful cavalry, neither are able to crank more than a couple stacks to defend themselves and thus neither would stand the bajillion-legions-per-turn Roman onslaught. Add some angry Greeks/barbarians that will also send their stacks at you every few turns..
Fun, right?
Right?

Fun.

I somewhat doubt it ends that way unless you let the AI really build up somehow.

There's no way the AI can spam units faster than you can kill them, as on the "realistic" 1-turn, Roma can train either 160 velites or 200 swordsmen every 6 months. You, the player, need to abuse your Tier 1 skirmisher-infantry capability (spam ALL the soldiers from ALL the settlements) and some slingers & siege engines to achieve victory.

As the description states:

Syrakosai had one solid resource, its levies. While legion too originally meant "levy army" Syracuse's levies were actually that. Taken from the 300,000 population that Syracuse had at the time of 216 BC

Legio I Roma Exterminatus reporting for duty =D

[Dramatic Cat]

You use slingers bro?

lol

[Alavaria]

Slingers are a great killer of Romans, they come highly recommended. 3000 out of 4000 Roman kills and the like. Most efficient way to do it.

[neep]

Slingers are a great killer of Romans, they come highly recommended. 3000 out of 4000 Roman kills and the like. Most efficient way to do it.

Agreed, get them in position on the flanks/rear of the enemy and they can chop down everyone and anything

[Alavaria]

Agreed, get them in position on the flanks/rear of the enemy and they can chop down everyone and anything

Their own description (Barbarian Slingers) says:


Aha, so they start off with a Large Lithobolos (nice!) but no slingers, just a bunch of javelin troops (this is a bit more annoying). Hmm...

EDIT: Also might have found a bug in the 1-turn Syracuse files, I imagine that would have thrown off the intended campaign balance.



Haha, I love this:


With three Roman settlements, each with a half-stack ready, and a roman stack all waiting for you to go elsewhere so they can murderize you, it recommends leaving the Romans alone.

[century x]

Capua is hard to play