What if early Christianity DID NOT accept conversion of gentiles to the faith?

[Farnan]

Continuing on with the Mohammed piece, Islam was began prior to the exile from Mecca. Mohammed was heavily supported by his wife's Christian cousin Waraka. Without Waraka's support it is possible Mohammed would have never started Islam.

Also, without Christianity the WRE would still fall, it's core was rotten before it adopted Christianity. Not sure about whether the ERE would have a shorter life or not.

[Cyclops]

The discussion about Islam is interesting. The degree to which Islam is influenced by Christianity and Judaism respectively, and the degre to which it develops other endemic Near Eastern beliefs is very hard to discern. Its definitely true Islam developed ideas present in the Judaic tradition but I suspect they were con-inheritors rather than one copying the other outright. Likewise much "christian" influence in Islam (including its wholesale adoption of Roman administration and culture) may be more about Roman culture than christian.

I think Christianity as an Imperial religion served as a model for Islam as an all encompassing social/legal/political mopdel but thats present in Judaism (at least in an ideal form) in the idealised Kingdom of David. There are other models for state religions outside Christianity that could inspire a persitent administrative Islam (eg pragmatic Buddhism as adapted by Asoka and further adapted in China, or Confucian philosphy).

Perhaps the merchant of Mecca might hear his revelation and found a world religion even without the model of the Christian Rhomaioi. Other peoples conquered the east, and it isn't just Christianity that inspired conquering hordes (eg Genghis Khan welded the steppe peoples, although the belief system he used is not recorded AFAIK).

Is til think the WRE would fall, and the ERE might persist in a larger but less centralised form, more like the HRE or Chou China.

[Roma_Victrix]

I'm just waiting for someone to come in here and shout "This entire thread is false! This could never be, because divine providence would never let it be so! The whole world shall know the word of the one true Christian God (and/or Allah)."

Also, without Christianity the WRE would still fall, it's core was rotten before it adopted Christianity. Not sure about whether the ERE would have a shorter life or not.

It's quite plausible that, if not under Justinian because of his enormous problems with riots, plagues, protracted war, and depleted resources, the ERE could reconquer most if not all of the former territory of the WRE, thus reunifying the empire. With a strong Sassanid Persian threat on the eastern border, it would be seen as beneficial to have a larger empire and thus a greater pool of resources and manpower to counter the Sassanids. That would mean retaking Italia along with Sicily at the least, if not eastern and southern Iberia, southern Gaul, and the western Mediterranean islands of Sardinia, Corsica, and the Baleares. It's quite possible that the rest of Gaul and Iberia would never be retaken, along with the territories in Germania and Britannia, but with the existing Roman infrastructure little Germanic kingdoms based on the Roman model could certainly thrive like they did in the Middle Ages.