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Thread: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

  1. #121

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Hello again.


    So i repeated my test several times and results are... far to random to judge anything.


    Setting: Alpine Pass,
    Units: on both sides Line Infantry (Piechota) of Poland-Lithuania.
    Player: I set them to three ranks deep before battle starts.
    Playtrough: advancing immediately after battle starts towards enemy, fire at will disabled. Advancing till about half the max fire distance - switching fire at will on just before unit stops. BAI in this setting always starts to shoot at max distance (minus time needed for them to prepare). Usualy this result in one man lose to my unit. After that, things are getting to be very random.


    I had one battle in with it entire lenght I've reduced they numbers only by 10, while they reduced me to 159 from 200 (breaking my unit). In another one, with fairly same setting (of course not exactly due to slight changes to distance traveled and exact point in the field) I've won.


    If I can speak of any kind of regularity, I've noticed that usualy my first rank salvo do not deal any damage (depicted) at all. Another thing - It looks like for very short time, but my unit effectiveness was growing midbattle (and then dropping again). I think this might be due to combination of terrain and how lose of accuracy due to lose of cohesion works. I (only) suppose, that while soldiers target less accurate, projectile spread might become paradoxically more in my favor for the short time in this given setting.


    Among those several trials I've repeated result with no casualties at all (with first three salvos of fire by rank drill) once.




    Btw. I've noticed that grenadiers have ability to throw grenades, but I was thinking this is disabled in imperial splendour, isn't it?


    How are difficulty settings works in your mod - do they simply increase morale and other bonuses for enemy, like it was in vanilla game? Or do something else?

  2. #122

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Hello,

    First, thank you for this sub-mod. I only recently installed it after playing imperial splendour for some time so can't really give extensive feedback on it (good or bad).

    However, from the little experience I had so far there are some points I'd like to share:

    1.In one battle, I had my infantry taking cover behind a weist high concret wall while the enemry's line infantry was in front of them at the other side of the wall. The enemy was in 1/4th of my line infantry's maximum range, so very close. Even though they were close, hardly any enemy soldiers fell with each volley. Is this really realistic? I found the "vanilla" imperial splendour behavior to be much more coherent where if soldiers were THAT close then many would fall with each volley.

    2.In another battle, I had 1 line infantry in a building + 1 light cavalry a bit far vs two enemy line infantry. One of the enemy infantry fired at the building and when they ran out of ammo they tried to assault. They routed as soon as they came close, no melee battle ensued, the other line infantry (with their silver general) was in safety. I waited till the routing infantry was a bit far from their other infantry unit and then I sent my light cavalry to kill them while routing. However, my light cavalry (at full health) routed as soon as they came into contact with the routing infantry... I don't think it realistic that routing infantry would cause my light cavalry to route...

    The naval battles seem really fun, much more than imperial splendour. The only WTF moment I had is when i was in a 1 xebec vs 1 xebec battle and spent 3/4 of battle time chain shooting but with dealing almost no sails damage (even though I was placing my ship in a good position to hit the masts). However, in another battle where I had 3 xebec vs 1 galleon, the galleon managed to completely demast one of my xebecs so I guess chain shots still work.

  3. #123

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Dr2i, Hello there!
    Before Pike will show up, may I share with you my own experience.


    1. If you try to go through whole this thread, you may discover that there is assumption, that actual unit in the game simulates 2-3 times larger real unit (battalion). So when one man go down in the game, you should thing of this as it would be 2 or 3 man. And casualties are generaly balanced around this concept.


    However I do agree with you, that close range firefight don't feels to be much more effective than max range. I dont' know how exactly accuracy system works. However, if accuracy drops in somewhat linear way along with distance, and doing this by a percentage of nominal value, then with small nominal value also the differance between close and far become neglectable.


    Also, as far as I know, accuracy is dependent of two factors. One is an accuracy stat of given unit - what we see on unit card. I assume it determines do your men point their shoots in stright line into enemy (but don' know for sure) or not. But there is also another value (don't remember exactly) not included in units lists, with determine, let's say, a spread of your volley. And this value is used most often by modders to manipulate accuracy globaly.


    Then, if this last value cause generaly very wide spread it starts to be obsolete do you you aim into the enemy or not (and I assume this is what changes with distance, but might be wrong).


    2. I have that too. I think this is because while you are galloping all the way after routed unit, you loose cohesion same time, so you have very low morale at this point. I suppose game don't provide a means to make your units to recognise, that nevertheless other unit do not provide threat anymore - however, take into consideration, that in this mod routed infantry units may get back to fight, with exception in with you alredy won, and want to chase down defeated enemy.

  4. #124

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    There are a few factors you mod;
    Within the kv_rules
    projectile_calibration_target area
    attackpower_extreme-range_multiplier
    attackpower_long_range_multiplier

    The kv_fatigue table sets the perimeters for determining the effects on accuracy in this table
    fatigue effects table
    This mod among other things firing accuracy.
    It is set up so that the more you run around and shoot and melee, your cohesion drops. If you rest or even walk, you should gain back cohesion.

    With cavalry, they are set up so that you cannot race across the battle field forcing units to route and killing units. Cavalry, contrary to belief didn't gallup about the battle field. When they charged it was highly organized and tight to maximize the charge. I usually walk my cavalry to within range than use the charge feature. My cavalry rarely rout or "bounce." I charge and opull them back when I see them lose cohesion.

    On casualties: Your effectiveness is determined by how much you micromanage your units. You need to old your fire and wait to deliver a devastating fire. When you do, it is a good time to charge because the unit may experience a loss of morale. They actually route without being contacted. This has been reported by other users.

  5. #125

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    So I was referring to projectile_calibration_target area than. But as I see now, it is even more complex. Thank you Pike, for sharing this with us.


    I was trying to find some info on how much time infantry (by average) spend in firefight, and when it used to charge. Do charges where performed only on flanks, or on the whole line. But without any luck realy. Could you be so kind, to maybe point me to some on-line source if avaiable?


    Thanks again.
    You doing great job with this mod.

  6. #126

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    UPDATE

    I have been working on 3.0 this past week. 3.0 will be part of the Rise of the Republic 1.1v update.

    I am fully converting Fatigue to "Cohesion" which means you will no longer see any status on the "fatigue" of the unit.
    The current breakdown is like this

    Threshold_fresh ==> Cohesion Good
    Threshold_active ==> Cohesion Adequate
    Threshold_winded ==> Cohesion Poor
    Threshold_tired ==> Cohesion Bad
    Threshold_very_tired ==> Cohesion Very Bad
    Threshold_exhausted ==> Cohesion Lost
    Threshold_max = The same

    THis requires an overhaul of two tables
    kv_fatigue & fatigue_effects
    Thee is also slight alterations to the kv_morale table.
    Specifically:

    ume_concerned_tired: <now> Unit is disorganized
    ume_concerned_very_tired: <now> Unit is very disorganized
    ume_concerned_exhausted: <now> Unit is in chaos

    I am also making minor adjustments to the kv_rules table and the tweaks to the kv_morale table.

    It seems like a complete make-over, but it is one of those things, you make one change and that leads to another. The concept is still the change, except it will be a more polish mod.

    Another change I am experimental with is the General. I currently have the general walk at the same speed as the infantry. However, I increase the running speed. This doesn't prevent the suicidal general, but it will make it easier for you to maneuver your units without having the general run ahead of your units. The increase running speed allows the AI general to get out of danger. In initial testing, it seemed to help. The minute you target the general, he turns and run.

    I am currently in the preliminary testing phase. (1-5 unit) experimentation. However, I am getting some decent results, so I feel confident I can achieve my goal.

    Thanks for your continued support.

  7. #127

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    bonjour,
    je suis de prêt tes traveaux géniale sur ETW ,merci de de tes efforts de modding.
    je cherche un moyen de rajouter un porte drapeau à chaque unité d'infanterie, mais un drapeau régimentaire distinct .
    aussi rajouter des flûtes et tambour avec une musique de marche et trompette de charge specifique à chaque faction et unité.
    quelle est la procédure ?

    English Translation Hello,I'm ready to make your work great on ETW, thank you for your modding efforts.
    I'm looking for a way to add a flag bearer to each infantry unit, but a separate regimental flag.
    also add flutes and drum with trumpet and music of charge specific to each faction and unit. what is the procedure ?
    Last edited by PikeStance; October 29, 2017 at 04:37 AM.

  8. #128

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Sorry,

    I do not that kind of work, so I do not have idea how to do that. There are tutorials in the modding section within ETW forum.


    ps... you have to write in English on the forum. There is a foreign language section as well.

  9. #129
    Skillreaver's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Hi I wanted to play RotR 1.1 with battle realism but the game crashes at startup every time.I followed the installation instructions with the IS launcher , but also via Empire.exe...Is it compatible with the latest release?
    Last edited by Skillreaver; February 13, 2018 at 05:08 AM.

  10. #130

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Quote Originally Posted by Skillreaver View Post
    Hi I wanted to play RotR 1.1 with battle realism but the game crashes at startup every time.I followed the installation instructions with the IS launcher , but also via Empire.exe...Is it compatible with the latest release?
    it doesn’t work with new upgrade.
    Im on vacation so when I come back I will create a mid to it. I will also fix the Otooman bug. I will do it as a patch.
    The release caught me as a bad time. My apologies for the inconvenience.

  11. #131
    Skillreaver's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    it doesn’t work with new upgrade.
    Im on vacation so when I come back I will create a mid to it. I will also fix the Otooman bug. I will do it as a patch.
    The release caught me as a bad time. My apologies for the inconvenience.
    Don't worry and take your time I'm gonna wait until it's done After playing ER mod I'm really hyped for realism and also to try already amazing IS but with realistic battles and of course I'll give some feedback here

  12. #132

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Quote Originally Posted by PikeStance View Post
    it doesn’t work with new upgrade.
    Im on vacation so when I come back I will create a mid to it. I will also fix the Otooman bug. I will do it as a patch.
    The release caught me as a bad time. My apologies for the inconvenience.
    would you have any news about that? thank you!

  13. #133

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    So, I installed this mod but my units still get tired, didn't fatigue get replaced by cohesion? I thought this submod would be similar to Empire realism, if you hover the mouse over the units you would see "good order or light/medium/heavy disorder", but when I do it in this mod it still says fresh or tired.
    In a custom battle, Britain vs France, British line infantry used fire by rank drill, wasn't it removed?

    EDIT: I know cohesion is in the mod but my suggestion is to replace fatigue completely, in Empire Realism, if you ordered your units to run they wouldn't actually run, just a "quick march" (I think that's the name), that didn't cause loss of cohesion but also didn't allow the soldiers to recover the order(if my soldiers fire for a long time, they will be in heavy disorder, I can order them to march to recover cohesion but if I order to quick march they wouldn't recover any of it). That would allow ordering cavalry units to "run" to the other side of the battlefield (they wouldn't actually run of course, but they were a bit faster than the normal march)

    I started a campaign as Prussia and all was going well but then, after researching Square formation some weird stuff started happening with my soldiers, every time they were going to fire they spread out first, and since I ordered them to move without making them a group, they entered the other units lines and started firing the enemies and at the same causing friendly fire.
    Last edited by john_peter; March 16, 2018 at 07:10 PM.

  14. #134

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    The version in the OP has not been updated. The "tired" comment is not actually "tired." I haven't updated with the new wording as of yet. I am afraid JaM as more time on his hands than I do. If you scroll up you can see what I am working on.

  15. #135

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Thanks for the answer but what about the weird behavior of my units? I ordered them to move up (each regiment very close to each other) but when the enemy got in firing range they started spreading out. And that causes friendly fire because they are inside other units.
    Also, I had to uninstall the mod because of the graphics, my PC couldn't handle the majestic effects you modders did, very good job.

  16. #136

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Quote Originally Posted by john_peter View Post
    Thanks for the answer but what about the weird behavior of my units? I ordered them to move up (each regiment very close to each other) but when the enemy got in firing range they started spreading out. And that causes friendly fire because they are inside other units.
    Also, I had to uninstall the mod because of the graphics, my PC couldn't handle the majestic effects you modders did, very good job.
    This is an animation effect. Depending on the order of fire certain units spread before firing. The only way to stop this is to deny that type of fire for that specific unit. I spent an entire evening testing this and I narrow down the effect for each unit. It has not been implemented as of yet. I hear this can be changed via modding the animation, ut was told this is complicated.

    An alternative you could try for graphics is less battle smoke. You will be amazed how much it affects everything.

  17. #137

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Particle effects were already at low. My PC isn't exactly built for gaming. Unless you mean there's another way to create even less smoke. (even at low particle the smoke actually look good)

  18. #138

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Yes, It is a better alternative than reducing other graphics choices. Other options are graphics drivers. They can sometimes be more efficient. I have an HP Envy 17 notebook. It is built for gaming, but it is now 4 years old.

  19. #139

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    Yeah no way I gonna be playing this mod any soon, gonna wait until I have a better PC.

  20. #140

    Default Re: OFFICIAL: Battle Realism Mod {{Version2}}

    I've just downloaded this mod for the first time and ran some quick test, so I can't say things for sure. Anyway, the thing that caugth my attention was the morale debuffing effet that artillery shots have. I managed to win battles just by firing a couple of shrapnels above the enemy line and following that with a cavalry charge. I was also able to almost afk a battle just by putting my cannons next to my infantry and let the enemy close in. When the AI cannons manage to break my lines it's very fun indeed, but the opposite happens more often than not

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