Does Carthage looks as it did in Alpha?

[Dago Red]

Thread split from here.

Please READ before posting:There has been some confusion. This thread title is slightly misleading (I did not make it). What I and others are saying does not have to do with the "alpha" screenshots seen in the other thread and somewhere in this one, but the GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE trailer released by CA and given to all major media to push out on the public as just that GAMEPLAY FOOTAGE. See footnote below for even more about that.

That is the screen comparison below. and the video is here:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OHV628oGiU


Content from original thread below:

Yes you can, but it will never look like it did in the "actual in game footage" we were shown in the hard hitting, amazingly well marketed Carthage trailer. if you're looking for that, you will be disappointed. You can build a port that is about a third of the size of that grand spectacle, and it looks very similar.

Here's screens from a comparison I posted a while back -- after installing GEM, Noif's better textures, mechdonald's FX and a bunch of other mods, I managed to get my game looking like this:



Not bad. Aside from the mind numbingly stupid red floating icons to tell you where things are that you can already see with your own eyes (that you cannot turn off), and the overly massive unit card panel that just refuses to scale properly (and it should never be that big anyway, cards were supposed to scale down as well!) -- aside from that it's not all that bad looking and you can sort of see the harbor you seek too.


Here's what it looks like according to CA:



This is vastly larger in scale and far more grand in every way. Note the entire fleet that can dock and sail in and out of the massive harbor. Note the men garrisoning the buildings. Note the epic size of the hill that rises up from the city that has the temple complex. In game this is more of a small mound that perches above the city and you cannot even access it.


EDIT:
Very well this was split from another thread and a poll added (thanks Ishan). I will note that not only was the so called alpha described as "actual in game footage" (which has become noticeably less awesome) but that we were also specifically told that all of this would improve:

"We're way way pre-alpha and what that means is there is loads of features not just in terms of the graphics but also in terms of the combat and animations that actually aren't in the game yet.So the final game is actually gonna look way way better than this!” - James Russell, CA.

ps. credit to spanish_emperor for one of the exact quotes above, I was referring to, though this was stated by different people at different times.

[Keyser]

You know that if you press "k" the ui disapear and you can enjoy the spectacle better and take screenshot ?

As to the unit card panel, it is indeed too big and it doesn't scale properly, but in this case it's probably that big because you also have a land army and i guess it is larger than the fleet and the panel is adjusted to it.

[Dago Red]

Yes K does toggle off the entire UI. That's very handy for taking promo screenshots, but you can't play the game that way, and you cannot otherwise turn those pointless eyesores off in any option.

The unit card panel is that size no matter what as of patch 8 (before I gave up) in certain circumstances. When you have a conbined land + sea army it doesn't need to be a land army bigger than 20 units to cause this. I always ended up with the double size panel. Also if you have a reinforcing army that would potentially take you to 21 units or more, BUT specifically decline to have it brought in (the check box asking you), the engine still displays the giant screen eating panel even if you only have 1 unit in the battle.

The 1st can be solved by a simple graphical option setting switch, yet to be provided last time I launched Rome 2. A modder removed them, but I believe he stopped updating his mod -- search for the "victory points removed" mod on TWC.

The 2nd is currently broken and bugged to hell. They said unit cards would scale down before release, never mentioning this giant panel that would eat up your screen. I think everyone would rather have unit cards scale to be skinnier for huge battles and all units fit on the smaller panel. There's also the tabs, which can be used to page between units if need be. Anything is better than what we have.

[PointOfViewGun]

Yes you can, but it will never look like it did in the "actual in game footage" we were shown in the hard hitting, amazingly well marketed Carthage trailer. if you're looking for that, you will be disappointed. You can build a port that is about a third of the size of that grand spectacle, and it looks very similar.

Here's screens from a comparison I posted a while back -- after installing GEM, Noif's better textures, mechdonald's FX and a bunch of other mods, I managed to get my game looking like this:



Not bad. Aside from the mind numbingly stupid red floating icons to tell you where things are that you can already see with your own eyes (that you cannot turn off), and the overly massive unit card panel that just refuses to scale properly (and it should never be that big anyway, cards were supposed to scale down as well!) -- aside from that it's not all that bad looking and you can sort of see the harbor you seek too.


Here's what it looks like according to CA:



This is vastly larger in scale and far more grand in every way. Note the entire fleet that can dock and sail in and out of the massive harbor. Note the men garrisoning the buildings. Note the epic size of the hill that rises up from the city that has the temple complex. In game this is more of a small mound that perches above the city and you cannot even access it.

Why not point out that the model in the actual game has the lighthouse much farther away from the walls than the one in the latter picture? This causes the city to look smaller in every aspect as you're taking a picture from a farther distance. You can easily figure this out by realizing the height difference of the walls. The one in the picture from the actual game is about 1/3 smaller than the walls in the latter picture.

[Dago Red]

It is a bit further from the walls, you can plainly see the village sprawl between the lighthouse and wall in the release version of the game. Doesn't change the fact that the city is small and underwhelming, that the epic center temple hill is an inaccessible mound, or that even the highest level dock cannot accommodate more than 2 ships, not a whole fleet.

i've never seen it built up in a natural game (this was from the historical battle) because each campaign I played bored me to death by turn 50 and/or encountered massive CTD (civil war), and the AI has to last longer than a few years to do this itself, which is a huge problem for Carthage. But it is true you can build the city up past the more generic template you see at first, to have those famous docks. It's just not that exciting once you finally see it. And you only build up one part of the actual historic docks, not the whole thing that was documented in another thread here with satellite images and recreations.

[PointOfViewGun]

It is a bit further from the walls, you can plainly see the village sprawl between the lighthouse and wall in the release version of the game. Doesn't change the fact that the city is small and underwhelming, that the epic center temple hill is an inaccessible mound, or that even the highest level dock cannot accommodate more than 2 ships, not a whole fleet.

But it does change those "facts" with the exception of the temple hill not being accessible. Your analysis is simply wrong as you're looking at the city from a different distance. The city is not small. It's at most 10% smaller than the one in the promotion. The harbour is pretty much the same size as well.

[Dago Red]

Ah, no. 10%? Where are you getting that from? Look at the original video if you want a better idea of how huge and epic in scale the city was made to look. What we have in game (unless this has changed with patch 9 or 10) is small and underwhelming by comparison.

Here's the gameplay footage trailer. Look at this, is this what we got?


Is that the city that's in game? I'm not even going to touch the graphics, the FX, the men and animations, especially that elephant. Just look at the city itself.
Yes, you can build that port. It's not however, even close to what you want/expect it to be from what you were shown.

edit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OHV628oGiU

[PointOfViewGun]

Is that the city that's in game?

It pretty much is.

[Fatticus]

It pretty much is.

No it's not. It's very clearly not, so why bother trying to convince people that it is?

[PointOfViewGun]

No it's not. It's very clearly not, so why bother trying to convince people that it is?

Because I think that it is. The two pictures above show that it is. I've played the Siege of Carthage battle. It looked like it is. Dago Red had to rely on screenshots taken from different differences to support his claim that it isn't. So, I don't know how anyone could argue using facts against the point that city in the game and the one in the pre-release gameplay video are considerably different in size.

[Fatticus]

The siege of carthage battle is closer to the screenshots provided by CA than what you can build in game. The port that you actually "build" in game is significantly smaller than what CA provided. Idk what facts you're looking at, but they sure aren't in the game I've been playing.

[PointOfViewGun]

The siege of carthage battle is closer to the screenshots provided by CA than what you can build in game. The port that you actually "build" in game is significantly smaller than what CA provided. Idk what facts you're looking at, but they sure aren't in the game I've been playing.

You're welcomed to post screenshots of the city that is built in campaign map with structures maxed up. The one Dago Red posted, however, shows a city that is similar in size.

[Fatticus]

Why don't you, since you know, you're the one defending it.

[PointOfViewGun]

Why don't you, since you know, you're the one defending it.

The burden of proof is on Dago Red for making the claim and on you for supporting him. The picture he posted after claiming that the harbor is 3 times smaller does not support his claims. I don't know why I need to post a picture when the one Dago Red posted supports my position.

[Fatticus]

The burden of proof is on Dago Red for making the claim and on you for supporting him. The picture he posted after claiming that the harbor is 3 times smaller does not support his claims. I don't know why I need to post a picture when the one Dago Red posted supports my position.

His photos VERY CLEARLY show that the one you build in game is significantly caller, of a different layout, and the hill is a lot lower. Idk how you can sit here and be like "looks the same to me" when its incredibly obvious it's not. He even posted comparison shots.

[PointOfViewGun]

His photos VERY CLEARLY show that the one you build in game is significantly caller, of a different layout, and the hill is a lot lower. Idk how you can sit here and be like "looks the same to me" when its incredibly obvious it's not. He even posted comparison shots.

Except the two pictures show practically similar sized city. The difference is that the lighthouse is at a different distance from the city, hence, everything in the top picture looks smaller. You can easily figure this out by measuring the height of the walls at the closest point. I believe I don't need to explain how objects look smaller and smaller as you move away from that object. I pointed this out before in this page as well. Please read posts more thoroughly before raising such points.

[Fatticus]

Except the two pictures show practically similar sized city. The difference is that the lighthouse is at a different distance from the city, hence, everything in the top picture looks smaller. You can easily figure this out by measuring the height of the walls at the closest point. I believe I don't need to explain how objects look smaller and smaller as you move away from that object. I pointed this out before in this page as well. Please read posts more thoroughly before raising such points.

Yeah I read your posts, checked the photos and it's not the same city. It doesn't even have the same basic layout. I'm not going to sit here and argue with someone who's being willfully ignorant about this. You can debate lighthouse distance all day long, it's not the same city, not even close. Next please.

[jamreal18]

Can we play this now?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EaDlihIqPws

I thought the cities sizes will be epic and massive wherein you'll really have to use the tactical map to monitor your units...

[Lord Baratheon]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just stop with the bait. Its getting old.

[alQamar]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Just stop with the bait. Its getting old.

Accepting low standards too Baratheon, here is the next one

Next time, Gentlemen, I will only preorder a game from CA if I qualify myself to get the alpha game and no further patches, so at least I could enjoy the stunning visuals and concepts, as other things aren't supposed to get fixed anyway

I had forgotten about that game play footage. What the heck happened CA?

Oblivion and hope is what CA business relys on:

We forget their untrue stuff every release, and hope the next time all will be better, or the patches will fix their games. Well if so, I better go back to church.