"New" stakes model

[attyla]

I want to make Spanish trestle (i have no idea how it is called in english - it is that: http://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koz%C5%...szpa%C5%84skie ) model. I opened stakes model and i completely confused. The model has no name and it looks different than on the battle map (on the battle mape there is a lot of stakes and they are leaning - in milkshape there is one stake only and it stays vertically) . When i try to merge two stakes model, converter allways crashes.
I will be very grateful for information on this matter.

[morfeasnikos]

Why dont you make one trestle model (not the stake parts) , vertical like the original, assign it to the same bone and let the game creates the others? For export use the same name like the original. PLZ back up

[attyla]

I don't get you

[morfeasnikos]

You r trying to make the trestle model by merging the stakes that using the MTW2 game.
This cant be done because the converter has not the bones.
You must make it from scratch.

[paleologos]

...i have no idea how it is called in english...

It does not have an English language name. English speakers use the French name which is Cheval de frise, meaning "horse of the Frisians".

The interesting thing about those is that they were moveable - not embedded in the ground.

In my opinion their ideal in-game implementation would have them be easy-to-handle like siege ladders, which they can be picked up by infantry, moved to another position and left there.

This would mean that an army has already set up a defensive position, something requiring preperations equivalent to the preperations of a siege.

If you can manage that you will be greatly appreciated by a great many - even more so if you can make the AI use them properly.

[attyla]

morfeasnikos
Can you write me how to do that? I'm still learning and i need a teacher because i don't get what i do For example i finally found the way to resolve the first frame problem. I did it by trial and error. It lasted from two months but I do not understand whad i did - i only know which entry is the first frame

[morfeasnikos]

Its hard explain maybe it is some tutorial for it.
But one is for sure you must make the model first then import it.
The way trial and error, i use it to. With this way i had transfer animations from MTW2 to Rome engine, and i dont remeber today how!! I you want to make mysterius things this is the only way.

[attyla]

I don't want to make mysterious things I only want to change model of stakes If it is possible without changing skeletons because in this matter i'm completely rookie

[morfeasnikos]

First see, in what form its the stake in the game, and if the converter can handel this type of bones.
You dont have to change skeletons, like a say it, you must make the model and save it to *.3ds form.
Then open the stake model with MS3d and import your new *.3ds model rotate it the same way with the old then delete the old, Last make it skin by giving it weights the vertex points.
Save it with the same name as Ms3d file convert it and import it to the game. Ready!
Allways Back up.

[attyla]

OK. Nice. But i don't know how to convert file from ms3d or mesh into 3ds format. I was looking for a converter but do not know how to use it, because I couldn't use it and i could not convert with it.

[paleologos]

OK. Nice. But i don't know how to convert file from ms3d or mesh into 3ds format. I was looking for a converter but do not know how to use it, because I couldn't use it and i could not convert with it.

This is not a problem for you actually.

When in milkshape, load your file, click the "file" tab and select "Export", then chose "Wavefront OBJ...".
A file ending in .obj will be created.
Open that file with 3DsMax, you may need to use the "import" button.
Work on it there, then again export your result in .obj format.
Open ms3d, and click "File", "Import", then select your file.
Piece of cake,

Hope that helped, let us know.

[morfeasnikos]

The new created model you must export it in 3ds format, you dont have use converter for it.
Anyway my english is poor and its hard to explain it sorry!

[attyla]

You probably right but you don't take into account the fact that in this area i'm completely green and i cannot make a skeleton for the new model. So far i've done that using Milkshape but this program uses only basic human skeleton model.

[attyla]

i'll try to do so. Thanx!

[RubiconDecision]

The OP's question reminds me of a similar question which I had, which was to replace the stakes model when "stakes" is a unit attribute, but to limit the amount of damage and only to make it a barrier instead. This would still protect the direction from which an unit might attack those units being defended by stakes and not necessarily harm them or reduce the amount of harm inflicted. Such things while altered in appearance would still likely cause the same amount of damage unless somehow some data is embedded within the stakes.mesh itself. I doubt this.

There is something similar that appears on the outskirts of some field battles, forts, and settlements, and that is obstructions in the terrain. We all have seen rocks, farms, buildings that get peppered in among the various kinds of battles that serve as barriers to go around.

It's possible that some of these might be depicted in a new way, such that a form of stake or the Cheval de frise could be located along the fields in a programmable way much in the way that certain monasteries have been added (or removed) from these battles. Ranged units might hide behind these "ambient structures". You might try looking in the /settlements/north_european/ambient_settlements/ . Within that there are four wooden stake types with the various kinds of attributes which are configurable in IWTE. It's possible that some of these could either be placed into a)custom tiles into various map coordinates, or b)that some of these could be intentional barriers to control the attacking armies path on the outskirts of settlements.

In the case of a) custom tiles, it might be that some fields would have nonlethal stakes that cavalry would navigate around to attack from the flanks, and we could eliminate the stakes altogether as unit attributes. That would be far better than 1) stakes current use or 2)robostakes that come out like switchblades in some AI enhancements.

In the case of b) with IWTE adjusted settlements then it might significantly offer a way to 1) slow down the advance of the attackers or 2) offer a screen for the defenders to sally out with ranged units, artillery, infantry, or cavalry but duck behind the screen as a form of shield. A carefully placed body of water would do something like this in which cavalry due to speed could dart behind but then whip around and attack then re-enter the fortified settlement.

A screen of some kind of ambient stake system slows down the advance, and thus ranged units from the safety of the fortification can shoot upon advancing troops since they are intentionally funneled through that region.

While the Cheval de frise would definitely be exciting, another rigid stakes system wouldn't add more than mere atmospherics. However if you could make them moveable or collideable in the collisions file, then this would be way cooler than plain old stakes even if they did the same amount of damage.

I researched them once. It seems like they were used much later than the medieval period, while some cultures might have used them at this time. Digging shallow ditches to trip up horses and caltrops were used in the medieval period however.

Here's what the ne_wooden_stake_fortification_a looks like. It's a semicircle of inert stakes that merely act as a barrier. Here it is zoomed in and rotated so you can see what it looks like with more of a 3D appearance.
A series of these semicircles and daisy chained would result in no full frontal attack on that area, so cavalry would be forced to flank around or pin those units within (most likely archers or artillery would utilize them due to range. I doubt javelin throwers could use them well. Taking two of those and mirroring them would result in a heart shape with a narrow opening. The archers could enter and no cavalry could get to them. Then the attackers would be forced to send infantry to squirrel them out. Some remarkable tactics would have to be developed in order to deal with these situations. Having such a nest within say a huge city square would offer quite a bit of protection since based upon the way the opening faced, then the attackers would have to come all the way in, loop around to the back, and then into the opening to finally remove them. Or pick them off with their own archers.

If there was a way to either replace this model for the one that say the longbowmen use or if there was a way to easily place this into an existing custom tile for a map coordinate point, or if there was an easy way to place this in the pre-existing battle map models for say the exterior of the NE Huge City, then attackers or defenders could utilize them for any units without a concern about other units running into them. They are simply barriers. While difficult to tell from the graphic, you'll see in the upper right corner that they form semicircle while looking very authentic and somewhat haphazardly constructed. There are several in that folder I discussed.

wooden_stakes_corner_a is much smaller and more akin to the ones used by individual units. Here that is zoomed and rotated in IWTE:


If you look in the ambient settlements under south european, then ambient misc, there's a stake fence that sits practicaly upright like a picket fence.


wooden_stakes_b is a heavier and more layered version of a.


One or two of the stone fort models also have stakes within them. So you could grab them from Milkshape if you wanted to not have to construct the whole Cheval de frise from scratch. Can't remember which ones they were.