why haven't any of the submods attempted to do the Others/White Walkers?

[RedGuard]

Seems like M2tw is practically asking for a white walker invasion, with the Hoarding and Mongol scripts. Would give an extra challenge for that late game after you've conquered 6 out of the 7 kingdoms as Stannis Baratheon. LOL. YOu basically only need two units or three: A dismounted White walker, a White walker mounted on Dead Horse/Ice Spider and a bunch of wights that overwhelm the enemy. You could even have make it to where it doesn't happen unless certain conditions are met, or not met rather. (destruction of night's watch, Lack of a Stark in winterfell/ North faction wiped out, no king on the Iron Throne, etc...) I can just see it and it makes my mouth water.

[Ser Elmond Starr]

I know for sure A Song of Ice and Fire Total War has some pretty amazing Other/Wights units, but they're not considered part of Westeros Total War.
Here's a link if you wanna check it out: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...FIRE-Total-War
I am currently working a little Age of Heroes submod, and after I'm done I'll get started on the Long Night submod. It's my first time doing something like it so that's all I can say, really.

[Drazule]

I think people who make this stuff care more for the medieval feuds of Westeros over the magical stuff like Dragons and white walkers. SO many houses to make, and then there's a faction that we know 0 about as is.

[RedGuard]

I know for sure A Song of Ice and Fire Total War has some pretty amazing Other/Wights units, but they're not considered part of Westeros Total War.
Here's a link if you wanna check it out: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...FIRE-Total-War
I am currently working a little Age of Heroes submod, and after I'm done I'll get started on the Long Night submod. It's my first time doing something like it so that's all I can say, really.

wow didn't realize there were two projects of ASOIAF in production concurrently. thats interesting. Doesn't look like the other one is done either though.

Thats cool, I defintely want to play the Long Night mod of yours when it is done.

[RedGuard]

I think people who make this stuff care more for the medieval feuds of Westeros over the magical stuff like Dragons and white walkers. SO many houses to make, and then there's a faction that we know 0 about as is.

And yet we know more about the White walkers than say the Giants or the First men for instance, yet there are whole mods dedicated to things like that.

[Drazule]

We know a fair amount of the First Men and the Giants. Besides knowing that dragon glass kills them, we know nothing of the Others' motivations (or lack thereof), culture (or lack thereof), tactics (or lack thereof), or technology (or lack thereof).

[AdmiralThrawn]

I see a couple major issues with the White Walkers:

1) They have no settlements and no named leaders (Night King aside) so giving them a faction (or even a "rebel" settlement) is unrealistic.

2) Their military is really strong against enemies who lack fire and dragonglass, but mostly ineffective otherwise. As such, it's hard to represent this force disparity and still have functional battles.

3) One of their most effective weapons is their ability to turn the corpses of the slain into new soldiers. M2TW can't really do this without crazy scripting, and even then I'm not sure it's possible.

4) Zombie-bears and Ice-spiders would both be super difficult to make as they require an insane amount of animations. I'm unaware of anyone making a Game of Thrones mod that includes Giants (if so tell me as I'd love to play one!) seeing as they pose the same problem.

All the same, I'll probably look into creating some wights and/or walkers for AOPK 3.0, and I'll include them if I think they look good enough. Still, no promises, zombies are hard to pull off...

[Drazule]

Raising the dead is possible - Hyrule Total War does it. However, that guy devotes his entire life to to that mod.

[RedGuard]

I see a couple major issues with the White Walkers:

1) They have no settlements and no named leaders (Night King aside) so giving them a faction (or even a "rebel" settlement) is unrealistic.

2) Their military is really strong against enemies who lack fire and dragonglass, but mostly ineffective otherwise. As such, it's hard to represent this force disparity and still have functional battles.

3) One of their most effective weapons is their ability to turn the corpses of the slain into new soldiers. M2TW can't really do this without crazy scripting, and even then I'm not sure it's possible.

4) Zombie-bears and Ice-spiders would both be super difficult to make as they require an insane amount of animations. I'm unaware of anyone making a Game of Thrones mod that includes Giants (if so tell me as I'd love to play one!) seeing as they pose the same problem.

All the same, I'll probably look into creating some wights and/or walkers for AOPK 3.0, and I'll include them if I think they look good enough. Still, no promises, zombies are hard to pull off...

1. they could be represented by a settlment in the far north, beyond the wall that gets crazy bonuses. They could also randomly appear south of the wall via scripting like the Mongols do

2. I think the mass of dead would be effective against most armies, and we know that most of Westeros don't even know about the dragonglass thing, so you could do a similar thing TATW does with Sauron: make him super hard to kill

3.We don't necessarily need to see this happen, but that would be cool

4. You could look in PCPP or something (its a submod for TATW) that has spiders and dragon etc. They are already fully working I think, it would just take a little reskinning. Also Giants are basically the same as trolls from TATW, could figuratively steal their trolls and reskin them into giants.

that sounds cool. Then again I don't think theyd really fit in your mod's timeframe. Whereas game of thrones....

basically the WHite Walkers would be Mordor from TATW. But instead of masses of low-grade orcs they would be masses of ice-zombies and instead of the near invincible Ringwraith Generals we would have uber-Others that command them.

We know a fair amount of the First Men and the Giants. Besides knowing that dragon glass kills them, we know nothing of the Others' motivations (or lack thereof), culture (or lack thereof), tactics (or lack thereof), or technology (or lack thereof).

True we don't really know their motivations, but do we really need to? We know they are marching an army south to the wall (very slowly) and have killed all the men they have come across north of the wall. Theres no reason right now anyways to believe they'd stop there, and we know from hsitory that the only thing that stopped them from wiping out westeros the first time was Lightbringer and Azor Ahai. Of course we will never know for sure until the last book comes out which could be another 10 years.

[TheGreenSenpai]

That thing we saw in the Tv show in season 4 could be their only settlement.(Lands of Always Winter)
If a map has just lands south of the wall have them appear as Mongols once Winter is there.
Idk if this is possible but maybe Wights should take extra dmg from fire arrows and fire balistas,catapults and stuff...
Maybe generals with Valyrian steel swords should get ancs or traits for extra command against the WW faction

[RedGuard]

That thing we saw in the Tv show in season 4 could be their only settlement.(Lands of Always Winter)
If a map has just lands south of the wall have them appear as Mongols once Winter is there.
Idk if this is possible but maybe Wights should take extra dmg from fire arrows and fire balistas,catapults and stuff...
Maybe generals with Valyrian steel swords should get ancs or traits for extra command against the WW faction

that was basically my thinking as well. Have a settlement that no one can access for them that makes like 15-20k a turn, then say around turn 200, have about three- five armies come into existance south of the wall.

AP bonus granted from Valyrian sword would probably be enough to do the trick if you give White-walker generals super armor buffs. would simulate dragonglass/steel

[HannibalExMachina]

you dont need a settlement at all, if they start as a horde faction. you can spawn them at any point, and even completely destroy the horde, take all settlements, and bring them back again. so, an immortal faction if you will. theres a script around for that in the workshop.

not really a way to simulate dragonglass or whatevs, all you can do are things that do more damage, but then, that means more damage to everything. would be weird if your dragonglass upgrade one-hit kills amoured knights. in fact, such an upgrade would lorewise make weapons worse against anything else, since its basically a stoneage weapon.

so, the only way to have walker or wights is make them brutally hard to kill, not such a stretch though.

the reasons why 1.0 doesnt have world war z: it would take us even longer to release, and the story simply isnt far enough evolved yet to know what is actually going to happen.

if we add them to a future release, with wildlings and the wall, they could pop up to give the wildling player some incentive to move south, and fast. that would be a neat thing to do, since if the player just takes his hordes south, theyll be over the wall at turn 20 or so, and half of that is just walking. so, if he has some uniting to do first, what with fighting other wildlings and doing scripted missions, all the while being attacked by hardcore undead mofos, thatll surely add some drama to the whole thing.

[AdmiralThrawn]

1. they could be represented by a settlment in the far north, beyond the wall that gets crazy bonuses. They could also randomly appear south of the wall via scripting like the Mongols do

2. I think the mass of dead would be effective against most armies, and we know that most of Westeros don't even know about the dragonglass thing, so you could do a similar thing TATW does with Sauron: make him super hard to kill

3.We don't necessarily need to see this happen, but that would be cool

4. You could look in PCPP or something (its a submod for TATW) that has spiders and dragon etc. They are already fully working I think, it would just take a little reskinning. Also Giants are basically the same as trolls from TATW, could figuratively steal their trolls and reskin them into giants.

that sounds cool. Then again I don't think theyd really fit in your mod's timeframe. Whereas game of thrones....

basically the WHite Walkers would be Mordor from TATW. But instead of masses of low-grade orcs they would be masses of ice-zombies and instead of the near invincible Ringwraith Generals we would have uber-Others that command them.


True we don't really know their motivations, but do we really need to? We know they are marching an army south to the wall (very slowly) and have killed all the men they have come across north of the wall. Theres no reason right now anyways to believe they'd stop there, and we know from hsitory that the only thing that stopped them from wiping out westeros the first time was Lightbringer and Azor Ahai. Of course we will never know for sure until the last book comes out which could be another 10 years.

There are two problems with what you're saying:

1) Getting those permissions is hard. King Kong doesn't allow people to use his models/animations in non-TATW stuff, and most others are in the same boat. If suddenly everyone gave permission to use their spider/giant units that would be one thing, but for now we're stuck making them from scratch (which is really hard and and which I don't know how to do).

2) There is also a quality aspect to this. There are excellent giant and spider units out there, but I have yet to see one that can fully "capture" a dragon's combat abilities. If one emerges and I get permission to use it, though, I'll do so.

Also, has there every been any indication the Others actually have Ice Spiders? They never seem to use them.

[Badger-dude]

I see a couple major issues with the White Walkers:

1) They have no settlements and no named leaders (Night King aside) so giving them a faction (or even a "rebel" settlement) is unrealistic.

2) Their military is really strong against enemies who lack fire and dragonglass, but mostly ineffective otherwise. As such, it's hard to represent this force disparity and still have functional battles.

3) One of their most effective weapons is their ability to turn the corpses of the slain into new soldiers. M2TW can't really do this without crazy scripting, and even then I'm not sure it's possible.

4) Zombie-bears and Ice-spiders would both be super difficult to make as they require an insane amount of animations. I'm unaware of anyone making a Game of Thrones mod that includes Giants (if so tell me as I'd love to play one!) seeing as they pose the same problem.

All the same, I'll probably look into creating some wights and/or walkers for AOPK 3.0, and I'll include them if I think they look good enough. Still, no promises, zombies are hard to pull off...

This, pretty much.

[RedGuard]

There are two problems with what you're saying:

1) Getting those permissions is hard. King Kong doesn't allow people to use his models/animations in non-TATW stuff, and most others are in the same boat. If suddenly everyone gave permission to use their spider/giant units that would be one thing, but for now we're stuck making them from scratch (which is really hard and and which I don't know how to do).

2) There is also a quality aspect to this. There are excellent giant and spider units out there, but I have yet to see one that can fully "capture" a dragon's combat abilities. If one emerges and I get permission to use it, though, I'll do so.

Also, has there every been any indication the Others actually have Ice Spiders? They never seem to use them.

I see what your saying though I don't think KK actually made those units, it was another modder.

and the quality is of course paramount. I wouldn't want a half hearted attempt at them, I was just pointing out that it would e just about as hard to implement as any other faction. Giants and Ice spiders aren't really necessary, but they would be nice. Basically you would need 3 or 4 units, but I get that we don't really know much about them lore-wise.
But I think if the others were done you'd find a lot of people with their own suggestions and thats why I opened this thread,

and the ice spiders are from Old Nan's tales, which though slightly embellished have mostly turned out to be true.

btw Admiral Thrawn, I am a big fan of your work. APOK 2.0 is a really good mod. Having a lot of fun playing it.

[AdmiralThrawn]

Thanks! Yeah, I'll try and get a couple of Other units into 2.0 as rebels, but they won't play a big role.

As for ice spiders, you'd thing they would use them at the FotFM, or and of the other times we've seen them.

Idea: Maybe I'll give a script choice where you can either sacrifice a bunch of newborns (-pop/order) or they attack your north most settlements.

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