[Official Submod] Historical Legions

[XIIICaesar]

I think I found a bug, unless the "Cohors [Province]" units are supposed to be activated before Marian reforms. For example:

• In Cisalpinia I can recruit Cohors Gallorum Gladius Ferus and Cohors Gallorum Gladius Veterana
• In Germania Minor I can recruit Cohors Germanorum Virga, Cohors Germanorm Ferus, and Cohors Germanorum Conscribere.
• In Grecia Magna and Macedonia I can recruit all the Cohors hellenicum (note that for some reason "hellenicum" is not capitalized)

Oddly enough, Italia seems to be completely unaffected. I would assume other provinces are though, but those above are the provinces where I have Auxiliary Barracks (all at level 2).

EDIT: According to Honga.net, some of these appear to meant for HatG and/or CiG, but I'm playing the main campaign.

That's normal dude. Those units are part of the Auxiliaries.

[zombieflanders]

That's normal dude. Those units are part of the Auxiliaries.

Not according to the map of auxiliaries (which my barracks reflect when this submod isn't enabled), which also notes that all the Ala/Cohors units come with Marian reforms.

[Dresden]

I left many of the older auxliaries in this mod from previous DeI additions.

[XIIICaesar]

I think they should stay. It allows for more diverse units colorful units in each Legion.

[XIIICaesar]

What I do is one region gets Legion barracks while neighboring Legion gets auxiliary garrison. Works perfect for regions like Gaul & Hispania. Also allows more city slots for other buildings

[XIIICaesar]

Marian ERA IX Hispana upgrtades into Imperial ERA VIII Augusta

[zombieflanders]

I left many of the older auxliaries in this mod from previous DeI additions.

So is this submod working as intended? If so, what do I modify to remove them? Because there's a lot of overlap with existing AOR and auxiliary units, and IMO many of them don't seem historical for Roman legions.

I think they should stay. It allows for more diverse units colorful units in each Legion.

Yes, but if this submod is for historical Roman legions, it should reflect that history, no? I assume that's why they're no longer in the base mod. If they're better suited to diversity for diversity's sake, I think they should be put back in the base mod. If they're more historical, then they should stay in this submod and it could be cleaned up a bit (whenever Dresden wants, he's obviously super busy on the bigger projects) to cut down on the overlap.

[XIIICaesar]

@zombieflanders I think the units you refer to are a part of the main DEI 0.95 pack & it's AOR units though. The historical legions submod has nothing to do with those units soaring or not soaring.

[zombieflanders]

@zombieflanders I think the units you refer to are a part of the main DEI 0.95 pack & it's AOR units though. The historical legions submod has nothing to do with those units soaring or not soaring.

Maybe I'm not being exactly clear, but unless it's reacting to another (sub)mod, the differences are indeed coming from HL. For example, Cohors Germanorum Virga (Slayers) don't appear in the base mod for the main campaign, either as AOR or auxiliaries. However, for some reason they do appear to be in the unit lists DeI for CiG and HatG. And even that gets weirder for two reasons: the timeframe for those two is 150 years apart, and one is pre-Marian/Polybian and the other is Marian/pre-Imperial (with the terminology mixed up between the two). Another example is the Cohors Gallorum Gladius Ferus (Chosen Sword Warriors), which doesn't also doesn't appear in the base mod, although in that case here is a similar AOR unit (Cladio Argos aka Galatian Chosen Swordsmen), but it is for an entirely different region. Like I said above, it's fine if it's in the base mod for diversity or this one for historicity, but otherwise it just seems weird to me. I personally don't think that these types of auxiliaries would have been in a pre-Marian army, and certainly not in a Marian one where the entire point was to have everyone use standardized equipment and tactics of Roman origin, but maybe that's just me, and I'd be fine if I just had the info to remove it myself.

[Admiral.Nelson]

why my first legions have the insignia of vanilla? not the insignia of the legions?

pic:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Solved i'm sorry

[zombieflanders]

I assume there's no way to have a historical legion retain all the military traditions of a pre-Marian legion? I have a level 6 legion in Hispania who already upgraded their Polybian units to Marian, but there's no way I could afford to disband the entire legion and start back at level 1 and re-recruit units just for new shields and flags.

[Faldor]

I noticed a bug regarding the texture of a frequently used helmet by your historical legions:

Some pics here:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

Other than that I'm really enjoying this submod
Only this helmet bug bothered me because it's used by almost half of the legionary variants in so many legions :p

[Marcus Flavius]

I think this sub-mod needs more work on it, to be according with all the factions/units variations, it´s the mod of Yolocaust, i will like to see an apropiate vision of roman legions made by the great genius of DEI, but Dresden can´t make the work alone! please, help Dresden with that!

Thanks Dresden, for all the good work doing on this sub-mod. i´m not using it for now. i´m waiting to 1.0. I hope you could improve this mod for the new update!

[MagicCuboid]

What specifically would you like done Marcus Flavius? Do you mean historically named regiments for all factions in the game?

Unfortunately I'm really not sure if such information or organization existed in many other states. Rome's named standing armies were mostly the exception in antiquity to the rule of levied forces, supplemented by various aristocratic warriors.


edit: One thing that does need to be done is some touching up of shield designs. Some of the Eagle Cohort/First Cohort shields don't match up with the regular Cohorts. Also, in some cases, the Centurion is carrying a different color shield as well.

Another thing that could be done (but is more just a personal preference) is the removal of some fantasy units like the Cohors Evocati or Cohors Evocati Germanicus. The Evocati did not form cohorts. Rather, they served in the legion like any other legionary but were exempted from the labor requirements of setting up camp, etc. Additionally, many evocati were promoted to Centurion or Aquilifer status.

Finally, perhaps some of the vanilla AOR units that are left in this mod could remain in pre-Marian times, but be disabled in favor of the official Auxiliaries afterwards.

[Marcus Flavius]

No!!! hahaha i mean the level of detail in units variation, not legions for everyone! hahaha. I just ony think that legions needs a little bit working on moddeling, becouse they have a few helmets variations for example, and i think DEI team could improve this legions much more! but as I said...Dresden needs help, i think he´s the only member of DEI working on this mod...

[Marcus Flavius]

What specifically would you like done Marcus Flavius? Do you mean historically named regiments for all factions in the game?

Unfortunately I'm really not sure if such information or organization existed in many other states. Rome's named standing armies were mostly the exception in antiquity to the rule of levied forces, supplemented by various aristocratic warriors.

edit: One thing that does need to be done is some touching up of shield designs. Some of the Eagle Cohort/First Cohort shields don't match up with the regular Cohorts. Also, in some cases, the Centurion is carrying a different color shield as well.

Another thing that could be done (but is more just a personal preference) is the removal of some fantasy units like the Cohors Evocati or Cohors Evocati Germanicus. The Evocati did not form cohorts. Rather, they served in the legion like any other legionary but were exempted from the labor requirements of setting up camp, etc. Additionally, many evocati were promoted to Centurion or Aquilifer status.

Finally, perhaps some of the vanilla AOR units that are left in this mod could remain in pre-Marian times, but be disabled in favor of the official Auxiliaries afterwards.

I´m totally with you, i´m agree with yur edit, that´s waht i´m talking about! =)

[Faldor]

There's also some aquilifers (the eagles carried by these guys) colored in white rather than gold'ish' which I think it should be.
I realize my screens are impossible to view, sorry for that. But I'm sure these small bugs can be found and rooted out without much effort. I do realize this can still be time consuming considering the loads of work involved with DeI, just hoping the official submods will be taken into account as well for the 1.0 release (testing, fine-tuning, improving…)

Anyway I'm glad I eventually tried this submod, together with the official auxiliaries this makes Rome no doubt the most interesting faction out there (and I'm more of a sucker for Hellenic kingdoms). I'm eagerly waiting to start a Roman campaign when 1.0 comes around, I love the micromanagement involved with these original legions (right now I've just enabled them in custom battles).

Another thing that could be done (but is more just a personal preference) is the removal of some fantasy units like the Cohors Evocati or Cohors Evocati Germanicus. The Evocati did not form cohorts. Rather, they served in the legion like any other legionary but were exempted from the labor requirements of setting up camp, etc. Additionally, many evocati were promoted to Centurion or Aquilifer status.

I think you just shouldn't recruit those then. One of the reasons I'm glad to have found this submod is because those evocatii units (germanicus and normal) in every legion (due to the unit limit of ordinary legionaries you have to recruit them to have 10 cohorts) just doesn't seem right to me, the same goes for the clibinarii. With this submod installed you can recruit some veteran legions, some heavily armoured legions, and some regionally influenced legions, which I think is great and it does feel historical to me this way

What specifically would you like done Marcus Flavius? Do you mean historically named regiments for all factions in the game?

Unfortunately I'm really not sure if such information or organization existed in many other states. Rome's named standing armies were mostly the exception in antiquity to the rule of levied forces, supplemented by various aristocratic warriors.

That would be possible for some factions I think (successor kingdoms), but compared to Rome the documentation would be very limited. The number one reason for this being impossible to me would be the 20 unit mechanics of armies in Rome 2. It would be very hard/impossible to have other factions reflect their historical army compositions and unit divisions when the engine is limited to this Roman-centred army system.

[zombieflanders]

That would be possible for some factions I think (successor kingdoms), but compared to Rome the documentation would be very limited.

I think there might be an argument for making the Argyraspidai, Chalkaspidai, and Leukaspidai, as well as the various Agema units, into historical units. Maybe different shield emblems for factions, with further differentiation based on location (i.e., armies raised in Hellas get the Vergina Sun, in the east they get an elephant, in Egypt they get pharaonic symbols, etc)?

The number one reason for this being impossible to me would be the 20 unit mechanics of armies in Rome 2. It would be very hard/impossible to have other factions reflect their historical army compositions and unit divisions when the engine is limited to this Roman-centred army system.

Modder Epic28 figured out how to make armies 21-40 units, and even though it can only be done via savegame editing, has started an ambitious DeI submod that will enable it for all playable factions. It has some downsides (faction emblems on army flags will be mostly hidden by larger stacks, possible instability with 40 units), but it might be exactly what you're looking for.

[Faldor]

Modder Epic28 figured out how to make armies 21-40 units, and even though it can only be done via savegame editing, has started an ambitious DeI submod that will enable it for all playable factions. It has some downsides (faction emblems on army flags will be mostly hidden by larger stacks, possible instability with 40 units), but it might be exactly what you're looking for.

What I meant was not really the unit limit per army, because the engine (and most people's computer, including mine) works fine with that amount of units, and the more you start messing with that the more the game becomes unplayable (imo anyway). I'm pointing at the size of units, and the way they operated in ancient times. E.g. Chalkaspides were a regiment of approximately 5000 men, who I think often fought as one single unit in phalanx style. This however would be impossible in Total war mechanics, since it would reduce many of the tactical possibilities involved with smaller units. An alternative to this would be to group the phalanx units and making them a coherent, if temporary regiment, which with the current coherence of formations and groupings (even individual units) seems impossible to do in Rome 2.

Anyway I'm already pleased with a fleshed out submod for the Roman legions, since their army divisions are more easily portrayed with the Rome 2 engine.
I've been playing with the Antigonidai mostly, and I find only the availability of those "doubtfully historical" regiments, and the visual work on them to be very satisfying. I can't wait for a Pergamon revamp though, and perhaps some too. I feel like the Antigonids are somehow visually ahead of the other successor kingdoms, perhaps because they have been revamped most recently

But indeed it would be even more enjoyable to see some of those regiments differ based on region/faction even more. But that's going slightly off-topic, I think :p it's all about the Romans in here isn't it

Thanks for the reply anyway!

[Falco]

There's also some aquilifers (the eagles carried by these guys) colored in white rather than gold'ish' which I think it should be.

I'm pretty sure this is intentional as the Aquilae were made of silver at first, not gold.