Detailed Maps

[shawn858]

Hello all!

After watching the Hannibal at the Gates DLC trailer I had a thought

Considering CiG added a detailed map to of course, gaul and HaG is adding a detailed map for the western Mediterranean, would somebody, in theory, be able to combine both of these detailed bits of the map and add them to the grand campaign?

[Nelduin]

I don't think the game can handle such a big map, devs already said that the engine wouldn't be able to handle seasons on the main campaign .

[shawn858]

Sad day :[ we can always hope though! I wonder though, why is it that the engine can handle seasons in CiG but not in the Grand campaign? Wouldn't they run on the same engine? o.o

[adambomb1]

What do you mean no seasons on the main grand campaign map, I got seasons since many updates in the pass. Yes it would be nice to have more detailed maps for the Grand Campaign, just think of the tactical moves.

[Barune]

Sad day :[ we can always hope though! I wonder though, why is it that the engine can handle seasons in CiG but not in the Grand campaign? Wouldn't they run on the same engine? o.o

The CiG map is able to handle seasons better because while it is more detailed, it is also much "smaller" in scale. It does not cover as much Total area as the GC map. Yes they do run on the same engine but the CiG map presumably puts less stress on the engine then the GC map.

What do you mean no seasons on the main grand campaign map, I got seasons since many updates in the pass. Yes it would be nice to have more detailed maps for the Grand Campaign, just think of the tactical moves.

I'm not 100% on this but I'm pretty sure vanilla still does not have seasons in the GC. DeI has added them thanks to Dresden's seasons mod that was incorporated into DeI.

As a side note, Hooray for 25 posts.

[Vardano]

There are season mods for grand campaign. Game engine handles it just well.

[UsulDaNeriak]

Yeah, I would love, if I would need 1 minute to scroll from Baetica to Bactria, because this map is so detailed.
Not kidding.

[Hetairos]

The CiG map is able to handle seasons better because while it is more detailed, it is also much "smaller" in scale. It does not cover as much Total area as the GC map. Yes they do run on the same engine but the CiG map presumably puts less stress on the engine then the GC map.

I'll add my usual CA hammering. Those dudes are just a few lazy bucks out there, governed by modern day profit thinking. They will milk us 15 dollar each for 1000 mini campaigns to come that add nothing else than a new / old map (which takes no serious dev time at all and no innovation process involved). They get away with it because 1.) people find history interesting and are fascinated by ancient story lines and will buy DLC's to play with their favorite general (caesar, hannibal, alexander the great, mark antonius), 2.) nobody kicks their ass. We have yet to see a competitor about this genre of computer games.

However they will NEVER do anything that takes manpower and time, but doesn't bring income (thanks for caring about the fan base CA). Hence they say the engine would be able to handle seasons effects. OH YEAH, we believe you CA... We live in the 21th century, were modern day wonders happen every day and people do things that were thought impossible, yet those CA dudes can't add seasonal effects to a computer game map... nor create a better and more practicable UI, add a family tree, make civil war something less boring and innovative, fix their bugs, improve performance, make the AI think, fix collision mechanics and blobbing, fix their particle effects, remove torches, enable a real buildings system, give us mapping tools, fix broken links in the db that renders no effects at all and not even the easiest to fix thing removing the "magic" round spotlights that appear over each unit when fighting at night. lol and they get away with it... the world is a sad place.

And last but not least, Dresden and Co. already added seasonal vfx effects to the campaign map (snow effects, rain effects, water reflection on the floor when it rains, added plenty of new seasonal anomalies like scorching hot summer to the grande campaign, linked each single region of the map to a geographical climate zone (north, south, mediterianian climate etc.) with its specifical weather, weather anomalies chances and bonus system, integrated the terrain files and weather definition files we have from CiG. NOW tell me what the hell would the engine not handle? Some green leaves effects for spring, some red-ish trees and yellow leave effects for fall and some white trees and snow on the ground? How hard could this be? I mean all the calculations, probabilities, anomalies, dice rolls and effects have been implemented by Dresden with alongside some weather definitions and vfx effects. Other modders for example made clouds in the battle maps moving and rotating, created plenty of new vfx effects and wind definitions, a new lighting system and added autumn (red-ish trees and falling trees on the ground) for the battle map. I myself would assume the battle map is more resource intensive than the campaign map. Another one didn't like CA's shader and implemented his own... etc. etc. etc.

Now make up your mind, if seasonal effects are impossible or not.

CA bashing ends here, over and out!

[Barune]

I'll add my usual CA hammering. Those dudes are just a few lazy bucks out there, governed by modern day profit thinking. They will milk us 15 dollar each for 1000 mini campaigns to come that add nothing else than a new / old map (which takes no serious dev time at all and no innovation process involved). They get away with it because 1.) people find history interesting and are fascinated by ancient story lines and will buy DLC's to play with their favorite general (caesar, hannibal, alexander the great, mark antonius), 2.) nobody kicks their ass. We have yet to see a competitor about this genre of computer games.

However they will NEVER do anything that takes manpower and time, but doesn't bring income (thanks for caring about the fan base CA). Hence they say the engine would be able to handle seasons effects. OH YEAH, we believe you CA... We live in the 21th century, were modern day wonders happen every day and people do things that were thought impossible, yet those CA dudes can't add seasonal effects to a computer game map... nor create a better and more practicable UI, add a family tree, make civil war something less boring and innovative, fix their bugs, improve performance, make the AI think, fix collision mechanics and blobbing, fix their particle effects, remove torches, enable a real buildings system, give us mapping tools, fix broken links in the db that renders no effects at all and not even the easiest to fix thing removing the "magic" round spotlights that appear over each unit when fighting at night. lol and they get away with it... the world is a sad place.

And last but not least, Dresden and Co. already added seasonal vfx effects to the campaign map (snow effects, rain effects, water reflection on the floor when it rains, added plenty of new seasonal anomalies like scorching hot summer to the grande campaign, linked each single region of the map to a geographical climate zone (north, south, mediterianian climate etc.) with its specifical weather, weather anomalies chances and bonus system, integrated the terrain files and weather definition files we have from CiG. NOW tell me what the hell would the engine not handle? Some green leaves effects for spring, some red-ish trees and yellow leave effects for fall and some white trees and snow on the ground? How hard could this be? I mean all the calculations, probabilities, anomalies, dice rolls and effects have been implemented by Dresden with alongside some weather definitions and vfx effects. Other modders for example made clouds in the battle maps moving and rotating, created plenty of new vfx effects and wind definitions, a new lighting system and added autumn (red-ish trees and falling trees on the ground) for the battle map. I myself would assume the battle map is more resource intensive than the campaign map. Another one didn't like CA's shader and implemented his own... etc. etc. etc.

Now make up your mind, if seasonal effects are impossible or not.

CA bashing ends here, over and out!

Amazingly well written, and without using a single "foul" word. Not to mention its all true.
You sir have just earned +rep. since i can now give that out.

[stupar123]

I'll add my usual CA hammering. Those dudes are just a few lazy bucks out there, governed by modern day profit thinking. They will milk us 15 dollar each for 1000 mini campaigns to come that add nothing else than a new / old map (which takes no serious dev time at all and no innovation process involved). They get away with it because 1.) people find history interesting and are fascinated by ancient story lines and will buy DLC's to play with their favorite general (caesar, hannibal, alexander the great, mark antonius), 2.) nobody kicks their ass. We have yet to see a competitor about this genre of computer games.

However they will NEVER do anything that takes manpower and time, but doesn't bring income (thanks for caring about the fan base CA). Hence they say the engine would be able to handle seasons effects. OH YEAH, we believe you CA... We live in the 21th century, were modern day wonders happen every day and people do things that were thought impossible, yet those CA dudes can't add seasonal effects to a computer game map... nor create a better and more practicable UI, add a family tree, make civil war something less boring and innovative, fix their bugs, improve performance, make the AI think, fix collision mechanics and blobbing, fix their particle effects, remove torches, enable a real buildings system, give us mapping tools, fix broken links in the db that renders no effects at all and not even the easiest to fix thing removing the "magic" round spotlights that appear over each unit when fighting at night. lol and they get away with it... the world is a sad place.

And last but not least, Dresden and Co. already added seasonal vfx effects to the campaign map (snow effects, rain effects, water reflection on the floor when it rains, added plenty of new seasonal anomalies like scorching hot summer to the grande campaign, linked each single region of the map to a geographical climate zone (north, south, mediterianian climate etc.) with its specifical weather, weather anomalies chances and bonus system, integrated the terrain files and weather definition files we have from CiG. NOW tell me what the hell would the engine not handle? Some green leaves effects for spring, some red-ish trees and yellow leave effects for fall and some white trees and snow on the ground? How hard could this be? I mean all the calculations, probabilities, anomalies, dice rolls and effects have been implemented by Dresden with alongside some weather definitions and vfx effects. Other modders for example made clouds in the battle maps moving and rotating, created plenty of new vfx effects and wind definitions, a new lighting system and added autumn (red-ish trees and falling trees on the ground) for the battle map. I myself would assume the battle map is more resource intensive than the campaign map. Another one didn't like CA's shader and implemented his own... etc. etc. etc.

Now make up your mind, if seasonal effects are impossible or not.

CA bashing ends here, over and out!

Well written, I must admit it
Alas, this reasonable post will be unfortunately ignored at the end ...

[Dresden]

I have no doubt the engine could handle season ground terrain effects, I have done it without any problem. The issues that arise stem from the fact that CA never added localization tags to the main campaign map. So, I can have snow on the ground in winter but it will be everywhere (including the desert). This is the same problem that I run into when attempting to have battle weather be determined by the season. Since there are no tags on the map, it can't be localized (so you will get snow battles in the desert).

Their entire argument about not being able to handle seasons on the main map is garbage. It is much more likely that they chose to go with a 1TPY model for the masses (who don't want to play long games) and so they scrapped the seasons.

As far as adding in the detailed mini-campaign maps, this will never be possible until we have new tools. Even then, I have no idea if it would be doable.