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  1. #1
    Slydessertfox's Avatar Vicarius
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    Default Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    So I stumbled across this Guardian Article today. It essentially confirms what I suspected, but it was informative and interesting nonetheless:

    http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...rity?CMP=fb_gu

    Back in the 1930s, Henry Ford is supposed to have remarked that it was a good thing that most Americans didn't know how banking really works, because if they did, "there'd be a revolution before tomorrow morning".Last week, something remarkable happened. The Bank of England let the cat out of the bag. In a paper called "Money Creation in the Modern Economy", co-authored by three economists from the Bank's Monetary Analysis Directorate, they stated outright that most common assumptions of how banking works are simply wrong, and that the kind of populist, heterodox positions more ordinarily associated with groups such asOccupy Wall Street are correct. In doing so, they have effectively thrown the entire theoretical basis for austerity out of the window.
    To get a sense of how radical the Bank's new position is, consider the conventional view, which continues to be the basis of all respectable debate on public policy. People put their money in banks. Banks then lend that money out at interest – either to consumers, or to entrepreneurs willing to invest it in some profitable enterprise. True, the fractional reserve system does allow banks to lend out considerably more than they hold in reserve, and true, if savings don't suffice, private banks can seek to borrow more from the central bank.
    The central bank can print as much money as it wishes. But it is also careful not to print too much. In fact, we are often told this is why independent central banks exist in the first place. If governments could print money themselves, they would surely put out too much of it, and the resulting inflation would throw the economy into chaos. Institutions such as the Bank of England or US Federal Reserve were created to carefully regulate the money supply to prevent inflation. This is why they are forbidden to directly fund the government, say, by buying treasury bonds, but instead fund private economic activity that the government merely taxes.
    It's this understanding that allows us to continue to talk about money as if it were a limited resource like bauxite or petroleum, to say "there's just not enough money" to fund social programmes, to speak of the immorality of government debt or of public spending "crowding out" the private sector. What the Bank of England admitted this week is that none of this is really true. To quote from its own initial summary: "Rather than banks receiving deposits when households save and then lending them out, bank lending creates deposits" … "In normal times, the central bank does not fix the amount of money in circulation, nor is central bank money 'multiplied up' into more loans and deposits."
    In other words, everything we know is not just wrong – it's backwards. When banks make loans, they create money. This is because money is really just an IOU. The role of the central bank is to preside over a legal order that effectively grants banks the exclusive right to create IOUs of a certain kind, ones that the government will recognise as legal tender by its willingness to accept them in payment of taxes. There's really no limit on how much banks could create, provided they can find someone willing to borrow it. They will never get caught short, for the simple reason that borrowers do not, generally speaking, take the cash and put it under their mattresses; ultimately, any money a bank loans out will just end up back in some bank again. So for the banking system as a whole, every loan just becomes another deposit. What's more, insofar as banks do need to acquire funds from the central bank, they can borrow as much as they like; all the latter really does is set the rate of interest, the cost of money, not its quantity. Since the beginning of the recession, the US and British central banks have reduced that cost to almost nothing. In fact, with "quantitative easing" they've been effectively pumping as much money as they can into the banks, without producing any inflationary effects.
    What this means is that the real limit on the amount of money in circulation is not how much the central bank is willing to lend, but how much government, firms, and ordinary citizens, are willing to borrow. Government spending is the main driver in all this (and the paper does admit, if you read it carefully, that the central bank does fund the government after all). So there's no question of public spending "crowding out" private investment. It's exactly the opposite.
    Why did the Bank of England suddenly admit all this? Well, one reason is because it's obviously true. The Bank's job is to actually run the system, and of late, the system has not been running especially well. It's possible that it decided that maintaining the fantasy-land version of economics that has proved so convenient to the rich is simply a luxury it can no longer afford.
    But politically, this is taking an enormous risk. Just consider what might happen if mortgage holders realised the money the bank lent them is not, really, the life savings of some thrifty pensioner, but something the bank just whisked into existence through its possession of a magic wand which we, the public, handed over to it.
    Historically, the Bank of England has tended to be a bellwether, staking out seeming radical positions that ultimately become new orthodoxies. If that's what's happening here, we might soon be in a position to learn if Henry Ford was right.
    And here's the actual link to the Bank of England's bulletin: http://www.bankofengland.co.uk/publi...4/qb14q102.pdf

    So this is another blow to the idea that austerity works. As I said, I'm not surprised as this should have been obvious to begin with, but I digress. The fact that the bank of England is saying this though definitely lends credence to it (as opposed to just liberals saying it). Thoughts?

  2. #2

    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Not much new revealed by this "article." Just some common knowledge with some populist misnomers sprinkled in. Money itself is obviously not a good or a resource. The Austrian School has decried central banks and "flexible currency" for decades. Really though, it just comes down to a difference in regulatory philosophy/theory.

    The fact that any journo can basically make a blog post and call it investigative reporting is the main reason I avoid British news sources with the exception of the BBC. For all the flak American news media gets, at least there's some semblance and awareness of what it means to be "objective."

    For those interested in actually learning how money works, a quick browsing of the history of banking, coupled with some classes on money and finance, will be immensely beneficial and make him or her vastly more knowledgeable on the subject than the vast majority of people, myself included. For those interested in where the two main ideological schools of economics stand on "money," reading books like this one will prove entertaining:

    http://www.amazon.com/The-Creature-J.../dp/0912986212

    ....And arguably well-intentioned but detrimentally simplistic videos like this one:



    Bottom line: If you like huge economic growth, mass production, easy credit, and deposit insurance, just remember that central banks and flexible currency arose to meet that demand. So before you go pining away after the mythological gold standard and putting precious medals on a pedestal, keep in mind money is simply a means of exchange. If people trust it as payment for transactions and value it, it doesn't really matter what its made out of. Arguing against the banking system because it takes advantage of some basic statistics and probability is like arguing against using money at all because bartering was so much better.

    Now there are of course theories as to "who really controls the world banking system and uses it to their advantage," but I think we all know what those sorts of things fall under.....
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; March 18, 2014 at 10:44 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  3. #3

    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Quote Originally Posted by Legio_Italica View Post

    Lol at that video, what a waste of my time. I'll save everyone else the trouble watching that nonsense:

    To sum it up the video, it's essentially all the evil Jewish bankers controlling everything from the shadows. They killed JFK, they want the NWO and only the gold standard can save us!!! Oh yeah, taxes are evil, too.

    They should at least try coming up with something original for a change, blaming the Jews is so 1930s.

    If only the world was so simple, it's always some evil bad guys controlling us all from the background. Whenever something goes wrong, every war, it's all their fault!

    Actually, the blatant ignorance and stupidity of the blonde main character in that video shows it pretty well: If people are too stupid to read contracts before signing them, if people who can obviously never pay back their debt nor even the interest borrow way too much money for their own good and default on it afterwards, it is not the fault of the banks.

    It is quite ironic that videos like that are created by the right wing/freedom!!/government is evil/Ron Paul yeah type of people, the same ones who always advocate for personal responsibility and independence, yet blame the banks if people borrow money that they cannot pay back. Hilarious.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    Lol at that video, what a waste of my time. I'll save everyone else the trouble watching that nonsense:

    To sum it up the video, it's essentially all the evil Jewish bankers controlling everything from the shadows. They killed JFK, they want the NWO and only the gold standard can save us!!! Oh yeah, taxes are evil, too.

    They should at least try coming up with something original for a change, blaming the Jews is so 1930s.

    If only the world was so simple, it's always some evil bad guys controlling us all from the background. Whenever something goes wrong, every war, it's all their fault!

    Actually, the blatant ignorance and stupidity of the blonde main character in that video shows it pretty well: If people are too stupid to read contracts before signing them, if people who can obviously never pay back their debt nor even the interest borrow way too much money for their own good and default on it afterwards, it is not the fault of the banks.

    It is quite ironic that videos like that are created by the right wing/freedom!!/government is evil/Ron Paul yeah type of people, the same ones who always advocate for personal responsibility and independence, yet blame the banks if people borrow money that they cannot pay back. Hilarious.
    I'd say the blame game goes back well before the 1930s. Jews in medieval Europe, being excluded from most professions and social life due to their religious affiliation, had in many instances no other choice but to turn to jobs of money lending in order to survive in Europe and put food on the table for their families. This despite the Talmud (the commentary on the Torah) forbidding all Jews to charge interest in economic dealings. Circumventing their own religious law shows just how desperate the situation was for them, and now because of medieval-era laws against Jews, (some of us) moderns still associate Jews with evil conspiratorial cabals ruling over the world economy. It's interesting to know that Jews in Nazi Germany weren't the first to have to wear badges of identification out in public; to my knowledge, this first occurred with laws passed by the Lateran Council in 1215 AD urging all Catholic rulers to have their Jewish subjects wear them on their clothes. Jews were hounded during the Crusades and in some medieval countries were randomly killed (HRE Germany) or deported (England) en masse.

    In any case, thanks Slydessertfox for sharing this article, it was a good read.

  5. #5
    Border Patrol's Avatar Protector Domesticus
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Quote Originally Posted by Astaroth View Post
    Lol at that video, what a waste of my time. I'll save everyone else the trouble watching that nonsense:

    To sum it up the video, it's essentially all the evil Jewish bankers controlling everything from the shadows. They killed JFK, they want the NWO and only the gold standard can save us!!! Oh yeah, taxes are evil, too.

    They should at least try coming up with something original for a change, blaming the Jews is so 1930s.

    If only the world was so simple, it's always some evil bad guys controlling us all from the background. Whenever something goes wrong, every war, it's all their fault!

    Actually, the blatant ignorance and stupidity of the blonde main character in that video shows it pretty well: If people are too stupid to read contracts before signing them, if people who can obviously never pay back their debt nor even the interest borrow way too much money for their own good and default on it afterwards, it is not the fault of the banks.

    It is quite ironic that videos like that are created by the right wing/freedom!!/government is evil/Ron Paul yeah type of people, the same ones who always advocate for personal responsibility and independence, yet blame the banks if people borrow money that they cannot pay back. Hilarious.
    It's not Jews, but the Rothschilds (Rothschildren?).

    But yeah, welcome to the adult world. Money isn't concrete and is only worth the creditors word. At the end of the day gold is given a similar artificial value. Fiat currencies have more than proved their superiority to gold though given their flexibility.
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  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    ^So what are you advocating for seeming you have it all figured out? To me its all about intent. Many central-banks function in some sort of healthy public-interest. To me the US and its petro-dollar and its economic and political projection is skewing and conniving rendering healthy public central banking elsewhere as complete useless. Yes, there are limits to what any central bank can do as mathematical difficulties inevitably build up over time, but when intend is reckognizing this as fact and making hard cuts ala Jubilee in sake of healthy public interest then the growth our systems generate is not a bad thing at all. But acting as if it doesnt exist and asking more and more from the public to keep feeding the top is not good at all. In fact thats the only problem as far as I see it.

    Also lol at American journalism. Maybe its because of their obvious right of center slant that you like it. Also lol at the rightwing slant of populism you favor.
    Last edited by Thorn777; March 19, 2014 at 05:32 AM.
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  7. #7

    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Quote Originally Posted by Thorn777 View Post
    ^So what are you advocating for seeming you have it all figured out? To me its all about intent. Many central-banks function in some sort of healthy public-interest. To me the US and its petro-dollar and its economic and political projection is skewing and conniving rendering healthy public central banking elsewhere as complete useless. Yes, there are limits to what any central bank can do as mathematical difficulties inevitably build up over time, but when intend is reckognizing this as fact and making hard cuts ala Jubilee in sake of healthy public interest then the growth our systems generate is not a bad thing at all. But acting as if it doesnt exist and asking more and more from the public to keep feeding the top is not good at all. In fact thats the only problem as far as I see it.
    Well, I'm certainly not advocating the views expressed in the vid and the link (thought to clarify, the "villain" of the video was not Jews, but rather the Rothschild family banking tradition, which is very real and very old regardless of the ensuing conspiracy theories). I merely included them to illuminate the populist context of the article from the OP, a context which others have already pointed out is rather silly and old hat, not the "Eureka" revelation that the article pretends to be. In fact I'm not advocating for much of anything. I'm simply saying that the banking system people have is the banking system they want. People like cheap money, and borrowing money hand over fist at low interest rates is only possible because of the kinds of things central banks with a "flexible" currency are capable of doing. There are tradeoffs to any system. My particular opinion on central banks is that intent is actually irrelevant. To build an entire world economy shaped by the whims of the Fed Board of Directors is incredibly top-heavy and prone to error simply because a centralized control cannot possibly manage such a massive apparatus with any degree of real efficiency, as demonstrated by the endless boom, bust, bailout cycle.
    Also lol at American journalism. Maybe its because of their obvious right of center slant that you like it. Also lol at the rightwing slant of populism you favor.
    Lol at your strawman. I despise journalism and mass media regardless of where it happens to come from. I was simply pointing out the fact that British journalism, differs most notably from American journalism because the former is heavily based on opinion pieces written by journo personalities, and not on actual reporting. There's biased reporting, and then there's British media, which skips the reporting part and moves directly to the individual opinion and analysis part, substituting the latter for reporting.
    Last edited by Lord Thesaurian; March 19, 2014 at 12:45 PM.
    Of these facts there cannot be any shadow of doubt: for instance, that civil society was renovated in every part by Christian institutions; that in the strength of that renewal the human race was lifted up to better things-nay, that it was brought back from death to life, and to so excellent a life that nothing more perfect had been known before, or will come to be known in the ages that have yet to be. - Pope Leo XIII

  8. #8

    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    In other words, everything we know is not just wrong – it's backwards. When banks make loans, they create money. This is because money is really just an IOU
    Holy , they only just got the memo. This information has been available for donkeys.

    Glad it is out, though, maybe someone will start an actual public debate with these guys: http://www.positivemoney.org/

  9. #9

    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    A thousand people will walk away after having read this article believing they now have it all figured out.

  10. #10
    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    I think there is more than just fiat currency or the gold standard. I don't know if the world is quite ready for competing currencies but its kind of happening, there have always been local currencies, but the likes of Bitcoin possibly signify demand to match the interconnected world and the ease of use and adoption that brings. But well, I am personally not that convinced yet, because I just find it to damn complicated to be honest.

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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    Originally the whole point of banknotes was that it was a promissory note for gold/silver.

    We apparently returned to our roots.
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    The problem I have with bitcoins is that they are counterintuitively more easily stolen. There is no way to protect against them being stolen as they are unique. What's more is that a fried hard disk can lose you thousands of dollars in bitcoins as well. A currency of the future needs to be more stable and secure, not less.
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    Denny Crane!'s Avatar Comes Rei Militaris
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    I can still see multiple ways to keep them secure, they have also produced physical bit coins. Unless you lose the physical version then they are attributed to you on the bitchain or whatever it is so you cant lose them to counterfeiting.

  14. #14
    Hekko's Avatar Centenarius
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    Default Re: Bank of England: Money Is Just An IOU

    All money is just a recievable on the issuing organization, central banks mostly. And all money that is in circulation is booked as a liability on balance sheet of the central bank. The scary bit is the assets bit of that "balance" sheet. Still though, this wasamongst the first stuff brought up in the economics class.

    "There's nothing right on the left and nothing left on the right".

    Before someone blows a fuse at the evil banks increasing the monetary base via lending, yes they are, but interest is critical here. Interest rates make sure that people only borrow money to productive stuff/what they really need. The money then guides the real resources to the place where they do most good. Quite fantastic really.

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