Are WE not not better than this.

[Ralkorin]

Look I was really reluctant to join these forums until DeI and I lurked for a long time before I started posting because the information was good, however, as of late the negativity here really sucks. It is one of the things that has tuned down my love of MMO's and other multiplayer games. I understand people can be frustrated but that is what makes this format the best to communicate in, you can type it up reread it and then post. Lets stop with the unproductive comments as they don't help anyone, and only drive a wedge between testers and devs.

Keep things to the topic and if you don't agree with an opinion give good reasons why you disagree not your dumb, conversely if you agree with an idea don't go after the opposition hear what they have to say.

We all are here because we love what the DeI team has been doing or no one would be here and the mod wouldn't exist.

On another note If you don't like some thing learn to mod or find a friend that can help you fix the issues, As much as I don't want to learn how to do it I am dabbling in learning so I can make what I think is right. BUT for now I will wait and see how things go as the first release isn't even out yet.

[LawL_LawL]

It's a self perpetuating problem that boils over faster than anyone can really manage. I'll regulate myself as I know I'm part of the issue when it comes to negative attitudes, but I address people as equals without exception... well... provided they don't give me reason to address them otherwise. A perfect example would be a half-assed and incoherent rebuttal or a merit-less single sentence retort to multi-page discussions that have gone on in depth regarding given topics.

If you participate in said pages and pages of discussion, there's the expectation of furthering the discussion. This entails that one does not post along the lines of "omg much whingers, jezus" or some other incomprehensible jibberish when everyone else is taking time to formulate their thoughts to post in a constructive and legible manner. Failure to do so and I guarantee I'll be one of the first on the case regarding responses. Bottom line is if you expect to be treated well, do so to others. It's certainly nothing short of disrespect to respond to a lengthy post about details of the game with a half-assed response that amounts to a two-word reply along the lines of " you."

Furthermore, though this plagues any form of online discussion platform so it's not exclusive to TWC or the DeI sub, there's a distinct lack of intelligent discussion etiquette. What constitutes a productive discussion and evaluation of various arguments assumes everyone is on the same page and keeping to the main topic of the discussion or addressing critical information relevant to what they are responding to or attempting to refute. When one isolates and attacks minor details that do not constitute the main point of the opposing thesis one is not contributing to the discussion at all, rather one is derailing it. To make things worse, this kind of derailment is almost exclusively the losing side relying on cheap-shots to sustain their position in a losing debate. Do not nit pick for a lack of valid ammunition or I will call you on and be very blunt with what I say. I don't bother to coat what I say with tact if the expected receiver has not given the time to properly regard what is being discussed before going off on some side track detracting from the discussion.

There would be no reason for anyone to get fired up if everyone took a page or two out of this. Specifically, at the very least, the opening segment regarding what is mandatory to facilitating productive discussion and where the line is drawn between proper debate or trying to argue with what is essentially an impassable wall as the opposing side isn't playing by the same rules. Reading the whole thing wouldn't hurt either.

[Ralkorin]

I call it swallowing my pride trying to take the high road, life has enough BS why would you bring it to your hobby's. In my short time on TWC I could have fired back many times but I felt that defeated the whole point. So regardless why add fuel to the fire kill'em with kindness. I just wish people would act online like they do in real life........ and if you act like some of these people do in RL I feel sorry for you because you are missing out on so much of life.

[squirel]

Online is real life too...

[tomFoolery]

One of the most frustrating things is seeing a group of people write relatively well organized paragraphs and paragraphs as to how a feature could be in some way problematic and the most frequent response to the devs is some form of "I like it, don't do a thing to change it" and nothing more. That does nothing to further a discussion and is barely saying anything of relevance, it's not at all a proper rebuttal to really anything at all and barely acknowledges that an opposing point was even made. Simply saying, "I like apricots", does absolutely nothing to even begin to prove how they are better than apples, oranges, plums, or pluots (plum/apricot hybrids, they're real). I expect this in real life and on the internet, especially someplace like TWC.

[LawL_LawL]

One of the most frustrating things is seeing a group of people write relatively well organized paragraphs and paragraphs as to how a feature could be in some way problematic and the most frequent response to the devs is some form of "I like it, don't do a thing to change it" and nothing more. That does nothing to further a discussion and is barely saying anything of relevance, it's not at all a proper rebuttal to really anything at all and barely acknowledges that an opposing point was even made. Simply saying, "I like apricots", does absolutely nothing to even begin to prove how they are better than apples, oranges, plums, or pluots (plum/apricot hybrids, they're real). I expect this in real life and on the internet, especially someplace like TWC.

This. Precisely this.

[Butan]

No.

[tomFoolery]

Oh, and I can say for certain, depending on how the deliberations on this RS2 legion recruitment model turns out, a few people will definitely be learning a thing or two about modding.

[wolfshart79]

I like pickles!

[Ano2]

Are YOU not entertained!? Sorry couldn't resist. I agree with what op says, but lets be honest the DEI submod has far more decent members than detractors. Yes we argue and sometimes type things we later regret, but overall I don't see any major issues. I post in the general discussion section for Rome 2 and the reddit total war sub, and believe me THOSE places have some very angry people. I see someone get suspended or banned pretty much every week for something they have said in the general discussion forum. The other thing to remember is that a lot of people play DEI and don't post regularly. These account for most of the out of the blue 'This game isn't difficult enough' or 'why isn't this unit in, THIS MOD SUCKS!' type of posts. They'll happen, laugh and move on. Once you spend some time here you quickly begin to see which members posts are worth reading, and which are simply vents/spam.

[Ralkorin]

Are YOU not entertained!? Sorry couldn't resist. I agree with what op says, but lets be honest the DEI submod has far more decent members than detractors. Yes we argue and sometimes type things we later regret, but overall I don't see any major issues. I post in the general discussion section for Rome 2 and the reddit total war sub, and believe me THOSE places have some very angry people. I see someone get suspended or banned pretty much every week for something they have said in the general discussion forum. The other thing to remember is that a lot of people play DEI and don't post regularly. These account for most of the out of the blue 'This game isn't difficult enough' or 'why isn't this unit in, THIS MOD SUCKS!' type of posts. They'll happen, laugh and move on. Once you spend some time here you quickly begin to see which members posts are worth reading, and which are simply vents/spam.

I understand this but saying A is not as bad as B & C doesn't make it right. It seems this world no matter where you go the options seem to always be the lesser of the evils, and that really bugs me. Complacency on decency is no excuse, and I would rather try and get that quiet guy to talk and share an opinion than drive him away with drama and BS.

[LawL_LawL]

I understand this but saying A is not as bad as B & C doesn't make it right. It seems this world no matter where you go the options seem to always be the lesser of the evils, and that really bugs me. Complacency on decency is no excuse, and I would rather try and get that quiet guy to talk and share an opinion than drive him away with drama and BS.

I think that's just how reality works. It's nearly impossible to create an ideal world given the very stark limitations of the individual and society itself. It is simply impossible to prevent annoyed attitudes from bubbling over into hostility and raising torches and pitchforks. The most you can do is settle for as good as you can get, which means the important part is knowing how to resolve things and return to civil behaviour when everyone sobers up. And for the most part this does happen except with the most prickly or peculiar individuals, so it's not altogether a terrible compromise.

As for the quite ones lurking and not joining, that's all down to personal initiative. As you've stated yourself you were unsure for a while even with the state of TWC being pretty consistent for quite some time. It's about finding the stuff worth looking at and discussing, and if people honestly can't see the environment as worth while to spend time on there's little external influences can do to change that. Removing the slightest hint of negativity from a forum could help a tiny bit, but that's very restrictive and likely to provoke existing members into an uproar as the removal of their rights of speech.

[Ano2]

I understand this but saying A is not as bad as B & C doesn't make it right. It seems this world no matter where you go the options seem to always be the lesser of the evils, and that really bugs me.

Yup the real world sucks sometimes. But comparison offers some perspective.

I

Complacency on decency is no excuse, and I would rather try and get that quiet guy to talk and share an opinion than drive him away with drama and BS.

As would any decent poster here.