Generals need more Hit Points!!!

[JohnK17]

I strongly believe that generals need much more HP...15HP is definitely not enough for generals like Lu Bu,Guan Yu,Zhao Yun,etc.These generals could deal with hundreds of troops on their own,so I believe they should be much more difficult to kill in battle even when they are standing on their own.

If there is a way to do it myself please help me because I search in the descr_strat_character_traits but I don't seem to find anything...

[Seether]

This mod is based on history, not the fantasy Dynasty Warriors game series, and we try to maintain historical accuracy and realism. That being said, no one can "deal with hundreds of troops on their own" and so we won't be making any changes to Hit Points.

To change the HP of individual generals, you must increase their individual "Strength" trait, or give them ancillaries that increase Hit Points, in descr_strat. However two things: 1) those generals you named are already maxed out on their Strength trait and, 2) there is a ceiling to the amount of HP a general can have.

[k/t]

"These generals could deal with hundreds of troops on their own"

[JohnK17]

Sorry but based on history these generals could really deal themselves with hundreds of troops.I don't say they could really kill them and annihilate them on their own like Dynasty Warriors but they could deal with them.

I didn't know there was a ceiling in general HP but I know all the rest you mentioned...I still can't find where this Strength trait is to add more HP.I think in TATW generals have really many HP so I think there is still some space for more HP.

*Your attitude is not the best by the way....I know it's not Dynasty Warriors and I said what I said based on history.These were some of the greatest warriors of china and maybe of the world and their achievements in battle are well known and written,therefore based on history I made my suggestion!

[Seether]

Sorry but based on history these generals could really deal themselves with hundreds of troops.I don't say they could really kill them and annihilate them on their own like Dynasty Warriors but they could deal with them.

No, they couldn't.

I didn't know there was a ceiling in general HP but I know all the rest you mentioned...I still can't find where this Strength trait is to add more HP.I think in TATW generals have really many HP so I think there is still some space for more HP.

TATW does the same as this mod: raises HP through traits (some hidden) and ancillaries.

*Your attitude is not the best by the way....I know it's not Dynasty Warriors and I said what I said based on history.These were some of the greatest warriors of china and maybe of the world and their achievements in battle are well known and written,therefore based on history I made my suggestion!

There is no attitude, I'm just stating simple facts. The Romance of the Three Kingdoms novel written by LGZ is mostly fictional, which is to say that very little of it is based on history and there is a lot of fiction, falsities, and embellishments found in its pages.

[john duca]

The "power" of the chinese generals is fiction , fairy tales. They were humans too.

[JohnK17]

As it seems we have a different point of view and we just have to agree to disagree...I guess i was misunderstood when I said "they could deal with hundreds of troops"(I know it sounds a bit strange but it is not actually imo).It's not that I don't mean or believe what I said...I am not a little kid that reads or sees something and believes that these warriors charged and started chopping heads off but they could really deal with them in battle.Personally I don't think it is superhuman or so strange,this why they were great and famed warriors...I didn't say anything about whiping out whole armies and stuff like that.

Also if I was taking into consideration what exactly The Romance of the Three Kingdoms describes in the novel,I should say that they could deal with thousands of them!!!


And yes your attitude was bad and all you have to do is accept that fact that this is what I believe.

Whatever...have a good day sir!

[The Blade That Was Broken]

As it seems we have a different point of view and we just have to agree to disagree...I guess i was misunderstood when I said "they could deal with hundreds of troops"(I know it sounds a bit strange but it is not actually imo).It's not that I don't mean or believe what I said...I am not a little kid that reads or sees something and believes that these warriors charged and started chopping heads off but they could really deal with them in battle.Personally I don't think it is superhuman or so strange,this why they were great and famed warriors...I didn't say anything about whiping out whole armies and stuff like that.

Also if I was taking into consideration what exactly The Romance of the Three Kingdoms describes in the novel,I should say that they could deal with thousands of them!!!


And yes your attitude was bad and all you have to do is accept that fact that this is what I believe.

Whatever...have a good day sir!

As Seether said above, this mod is based on history. In reality, no general can deal with a thousand men alone. Romance of Three Kingdoms was written in the 13th century, and most of the events are based on Luo Guangzhong's own creativity. It isn't a historical novel as many mistakenly believe, hence the name 'Romance of'. Real historical 'records' actually written during and after by historians who saw it through first-hand experience you might want to take a look at is Records of the Three Kingdoms; it's not a bad read, trust me. It really helps clear up many of the things in terms of fact vs fiction.

You can change the HP if you like, but there is no need to rant about when we don't totally accept your idea. Your attitude is basically saying that we modders don't understand a thing about what we are modding, and we're making this all up on so-called 'history'. Also, the fact that Zhao Yun had killed thousands at Changban was largely made up. These great warriors weren't famous and great for killing millions on the battlefield (although it is quite possible that they killed millions throughout their lifetime, it's a bit unlikely that he did it all by himself), they were famous for living up to virtue, and following Liu Bei even through all his defeats. That's what makes Liu Bei's generals so famous, because although Liu Bei may have not been looking for the best of them at all times, they still stayed true to him. The killing millions is something that was made up by the common people because they won so many great victories. And majority of Zhao Yun's victories were due to strategists like Pang Tong and Zhuge Liang. I'm not saying that's its wrong for you to believe that; I'm Chinese, and sometimes I get confused from fact vs fiction too

[JohnK17]

As Seether said above, this mod is based on history. In reality, no general can deal with a thousand men alone. Romance of Three Kingdoms was written in the 13th century, and most of the events are based on Luo Guangzhong's own creativity. It isn't a historical novel as many mistakenly believe, hence the name 'Romance of'. Real historical 'records' actually written during and after by historians who saw it through first-hand experience you might want to take a look at is Records of the Three Kingdoms; it's not a bad read, trust me. It really helps clear up many of the things in terms of fact vs fiction.

You can change the HP if you like, but there is no need to rant about when we don't totally accept your idea. Your attitude is basically saying that we modders don't understand a thing about what we are modding, and we're making this all up on so-called 'history'. Also, the fact that Zhao Yun had killed thousands at Changban was largely made up. These great warriors weren't famous and great for killing millions on the battlefield (although it is quite possible that they killed millions throughout their lifetime, it's a bit unlikely that he did it all by himself), they were famous for living up to virtue, and following Liu Bei even through all his defeats. That's what makes Liu Bei's generals so famous, because although Liu Bei may have not been looking for the best of them at all times, they still stayed true to him. The killing millions is something that was made up by the common people because they won so many great victories. And majority of Zhao Yun's victories were due to strategists like Pang Tong and Zhuge Liang. I'm not saying that's its wrong for you to believe that; I'm Chinese, and sometimes I get confused from fact vs fiction too

You argue about things I never said or meant and I don't complain about anything...I just made a suggestion of what I believe and I took an aggresive towards me response.

Read better of what I type please...I mean exactly what I type.I clearly say that they could just deal against many men and I specify that and yet you argue about something I never said like killing millions and stuff.

This is a great mod and I love it...this is why actually I registered,I just wanted to help.I respect the work the team did and I congratulate you for the outcome.All I took though was an aggression out of nowhere but nevermind,forget it!

SORRY BUT I AM A ROMANTIC KIND OF GUY AND I BELIEVE IN GREAT HEROES WITH EXTRAORDINARY ACHIEVEMENTS!!!

[limith]

I think generals have enough hitpoints, they are fine. Did find it odd that one of my general units (on horse) was in a Heavy cavalry unit and losing to light horse unit in a 2v1 with an allied light cavalry unit today

[Gigantus]

I am fairly certain that once this mod had a 'full' version someone is going to make a sub mod with exactly those 'hero' generals. In the mean time please do not aggravate each other over your ideas for this mod - we each have different ones. For the purpose of this mod we have simply decided to go a historical correct way, it is much easier for enthusiasts to mod RotK into a 'romantic' version then the other way round.

As a kind of concession we have already given 13 of the starting characters 'hero abilities', eg Cao Cao, Lu Bu

[keldor]

I think the main problem is. Ones definition of "deal with x amount of troops". To "deal" that could mean anything. Like pushing a boulder off a cliff and killing hundreds of men. Just showing your face and scare off a few hundred men. What does the op mean by "dealing"? Single handily killing hundreds of troops in close combat, man to man? Which seems that is what everyone is interpreting what the OP means.

Since I dont know what he means by "deal" I will say this though. No man can kill hundreds of men in close combat. Even if they came at him one by one he would get tired at some point. And I doubt they would attack him one at a time either.

[JohnK17]

I think the main problem is. Ones definition of "deal with x amount of troops". To "deal" that could mean anything. Like pushing a boulder off a cliff and killing hundreds of men. Just showing your face and scare off a few hundred men. What does the op mean by "dealing"? Single handily killing hundreds of troops in close combat, man to man? Which seems that is what everyone is interpreting what the OP means.

Since I dont know what he means by "deal" I will say this though. No man can kill hundreds of men in close combat. Even if they came at him one by one he would get tired at some point. And I doubt they would attack him one at a time either.

By saying "deal" I mean "DEAL" not kill them...As I said before I mean exactly what I type! <(I think it's pretty obvious but I am glad you put it that way in your post)

I just think from my experience in the game that some generals ought to be very hard to kill in combat and this is something I don't see.To be more specific,I find it just not right when Zhang Fei(not wounded at all) with his strong bodyguard unit charging regular archers and being one of the first to get killed!!! This is not the only case though...

I also added the defence skill to all units to make battles last a bit longer and for the generals not to get killed so easily but no progress on the "generals" thing(I think generals get the stats of their boduguard unit apart from the hitpoints).

[DeVrie]

I've been using my generals liberally in combat and they can take quite a beating. Bad luck => reload.

[keldor]

To be honest I dont think you're gonna find that sweet spot, John. Due to games engine limitations. And with the archer thing, I think you just got a bad dice roll on your general.

[k/t]

"charging regular archers and being one of the first to get killed"

Do the units have officers? I find officers to be a great idea since they shield the general and he's no longer in the first row.

[Gigantus]

... In the mean time please do not aggravate each other over your ideas for this mod - we each have different ones.

I really don't like being ignored, so I have edited some posts. I won't bother next time and simply close the thread.

I also added the defence skill to all units to make battles last a bit longer and for the generals not to get killed so easily but no progress on the "generals" thing(I think generals get the stats of their boduguard unit apart from the hitpoints).

That is correct, named characters get the statistics of their body guard unit plus whatever their traits and ancillaries confer on them.

And with the archer thing, I think you just got a bad dice roll on your general.

That has been fixed with the latest quickfix - we will replace the now removed officer(s) with other models that do not cause a crash.

[JohnK17]

I suggest you lock the thread Gigantus because it lost it's point.

[Gigantus]

I just removed your comments because a) you responded the same here already and b) because it contravenes what I have just posted in red.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that you were responding while I was editing those posts.
You may not be aware of it - administrators post in bold red, moderators in bold blue if it is official.
Discussing moderation is usually not permitted in regular discussion threads (this is the place for it), so if you have further questions regarding moderation please send me a PM.

In the end it means the thread still has it's point, so have a look at what else I posted?

[DeVrie]

@JohnK17:

I apologize for acting like a keyboard warrior, I hope I didn't sour your arrival to these forums.