Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

[Barry Goldwater]

Eh I'm somewhat hesitant with this time-skip, if only because I'm not sure which camp to through my successor, James Lamberth, into :p I had in mind a pro-slavery, nativist bigot who nonetheless supports big, federal government - something I doubt he could advocate in any of the factions.

You could still have him go Democrat, they did support stuff like the Fugitive Slave Laws and the Gag Rule after all. The more I think about it, the more apparent it becomes that the Dems shouldn't be called the 'party of small government' as much as they should be the 'party of small government, except when it comes to defending slavery, in which case BIG GOV'T AHOY' Combine that with the rather more radical racial views of WEF-America thanks to the maroons, as well as the fact that it's around this point that slavery becomes seen as a positive good by its practitioners, and the slavery thing + nativism should outweigh any concerns about big gov't on the part of most rank & file Dems.

EDIT: Alternatively, be a Whig. Zachary Taylor's an example of a slave-owning Southern Whig.

So Barry, I intended to take Charles Eggers (and later his son) and colonize Texas, then lead the Texan Revolution with either his son or his grandson. If we skip ahead to 1828, can I play as one of my chars the leader of the Texas Revolutionaries and have the Eggers family replace Austin and Houston? I was really hoping for an Era of Good Feelings start so I could do some Texas stuff.

Well Texas's revolution won't have started right out of the gate, give it some time. Have the Eggers family live with the Five Civilized Tribes some more or something in the meantime, you'll get your chance to derail the Trail of Tears pretty much at the start of the game (at most by 1830, since if the feds don't do it the Georgia state governor will...but his militia is, suffice to say, not quite in the same league of difficulty as the federal army should the 5CT resist). So you can defend the 5CT first if you want, then move over to Texas to help out the revolutionaries later.

We can't start in the Era of Good Feelings b/c people would have even less to do then (what with there being one dominant party & few major problems abroad or at home) than they do now, lol.

[Barry Goldwater]

I'll use this post to keep track of the votes, btw.

In favor of a leap to 1828: 3 (Xion, Jacb, Perry)
In favor of sticking with 1792:

[Xion]

1792.

[jacb547]

Ill vote for the skip.

[Pericles of Athens]

1828 for me.

I'll stick with the Bohannon and Wallace families. Willy Wallace's biological son/Henry Wallace's adoptive son will make a fine Democrat, heartily continuing the Wallace family tradition of bigotry only this time he wont be alone in his incredibly racist ways. The Bohannon will be a stand in for an Andrew Jackson type role, he'd certainly fit the bill being born dirt poor on the frontier and we're gonna need someone to show the Brits what's what in WEF's war of 1812 (assuming there is one, which I think would have been even more inevitable given the greater tension between GB and the US).

[Xion]

I'm going to venture a guess that Jackson will be a position the players will vote on who gets it due to his importance. Although there may be some changes as New Orleans may not happen/someone else may get that, depending on the timeline alterations Barry makes. As for my characters, probably will have a Rondelle from the new location of the family, Louisiana. My 1792 one may be the first governor of the state before he dies in 1816.

[Barry Goldwater]

Indeedy, we'll have a few positions up for grabs should the option to skip ahead win out & we get around to a 'write the TL for the intervening years' thread: it'll be Andrew Jackson, John Calhoun, John Q. Adams and Henry Clay this time around.

[Kip]

I think I'm out, gents. WEF 3.0 really was a good attempt at reliving the glory days but has become a sad farce at this point, with the first two rounds killed for stupid reasons. There's no reason to believe a new round will be any different.

[Dan the Man]

I throw in my lot with Kip.

[Barry Goldwater]

Well the whole point of jumping to 1828 is to create a more interesting domestic environment, as opposed to the pretty stale (minus the Whiskey Rebellion, any possible A&S Act and possibly the Louisiana Purchase) one we have now: the 1792 start is already shaping up to be almost exclusively an foreign policy game, as we can not only see from the kinda-reasonable amount of activity in the Senate and the radio silence from the House, but also the lack of domestic issues for anyone to really get worked up over right now - tariffs aren't exciting, Indian Removal is still a no-go, and the slavery debate hasn't fully ignited yet. That doesn't leave you guys with a lot of plausible avenues of action on the domestic side of things, which has traditionally always been at least 1/2 of what made up WEF. (I will grant that 1776 really did die for stupid reasons)

I can see your point though, which is why I am going to draw the line at this third round for a restart. 1828 has plenty of domestic events, and enough foreign ones, to keep it exciting for a while - which is why I insist on fixing an end-date for it that we have to reach as a community, at 1836 at the earliest. If we can't even make that, I'd have to agree that WEF 3.0 is dead.

EDIT: Upon further consideration, I suppose it wouldn't hurt to give 1792 at least another turn, so you guys can handle Genet + the Jay Treaty. Also, I can toss in an earlier Barbary problem to get the House rolling on building a navy. If activity still won't pick up at that point I dunno what else can be done to salvage this game, though.

[Barry Goldwater]

Aight, upon further reflection:

1. This is the time of year where most games tend to slow down massively due to us uni students getting into finals season. I myself have to deal with loads of longass papers to write, then exams after that. (this is also why Tribulation seems to have slowed down, for those of you who are involved in that) This can only get worse with the passing of time before it gets better.

2. I'd rather this game stagger on a bit longer with its established rules & characters over writing up rules for a game that can potentially die within a week due to inactivity. In that case WEF 3.0 would be definitively dead.

3. Minimum end-dates for games are sounding like a good idea to prevent IH ADD or inactivity from murdering it. Essentially, from the start of the game to this fixed point, I will propose no new games nor will I again suggest a timeskip even if things do seem a bit slow. In that case I'll throw something into the mix to get things rolling again, unless you guys manage to start a ruckus on your own. Once we reach this endpoint, then we can start talking about & holding votes for either a timeskip, or to keep the game going.

With this in mind, I now propose keeping 1792 going until a minimum end-date of 1796, when Poole's second term ends - this being an early American game, at the least we should give our Washington a chance to finish his terms in office. Then we can bring up this discussion about a jump to 1828, or keep going with 1792. Until then though, we gotta at least try to push through with this iteration. It's only three more weeks guys, we can make it!

[Agamemnon]

While I'll do my best to get things rolling with Jay's Treaty (and I'll write up an aux today), I'm really busy with work and stuff and the only time I have to do anything really is while I'm at school. Also, the idea of end dates kinda worries me. It seems like players who aren't going to play are just going to drop out of IH entirely, and if a game is well and truly dead but there's three more weeks of it, I can't see any reason it needs to sit there and take up the forum.

[Barry Goldwater]

Well the idea is to prevent a game from shriveling up due to early drops in activity & hold out for a new surge, which is what I'm trying to achieve by throwing the Barbary War at you guys early - now the House has an actual reason to be active, as does the Senate. If a game remains completely static say halfway through its grace period then I guess we'd really have to concede the point in the interest of letting other games arise, but that shouldn't be too likely in this particular case.

[Agamemnon]

Alright. In this case not an issue, just thinking that it might be an issue later.

[Barry Goldwater]

It's the start of a new turn and the year 1794. I'll have more events up shortly.

[Barry Goldwater]

Job rolls this turn:
Planter: 3
Religious Leader: 2
Thinker: 2
Farmer: 2

[EmperorBatman999]

Would it be wise to send the Legion out to Ohio to fight the Indians?

[Barry Goldwater]

Considering that the LOTUS was founded to do exactly that in the first place (them suppressing the Whiskey Rebellion was un unplanned development, it hadn't exploded until the troops were already half-trained at Legionville iirc), I'm gonna go with a yes

[Barry Goldwater]

Well, it's 1795. Let's try to make the final push to next Friday, folks.

[jacb547]

Sorry I have been a bit inactive guys but I am real busy.