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Thread: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

  1. #61
    EmperorBatman999's Avatar I say, what, what?
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    From timid and now to being McClellan? Can Jamie get a break?

  2. #62
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    First his supporters have to win the historiography war

    I've gotten back to my desktop now, so I'll get the LUS/Whiskey Rebs battle up in about an hour or two. Maybe less.

  3. #63
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Since now I have nothing to do, can I be a Rep from Kentucky with Charles?

  4. #64
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Well sure, I guess. At least the younger up-and-coming generation that dominates the House wouldn't have physically seen him barging into the CC's meeting place, only heard about it from their elders And his loyalty to the feds in the WR, even if it died before he could get his militia to do anything, should win him some (more) points with that older gen as well.

  5. #65
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    IDK, I'm just going to be kinda bored. Probably not the greatest place for him to be since nobody will take him seriously, but unless we start doing some negotiations or fighting some wars I don't know what to do. Or I'd really like to do some settling, but we don't own Louisiana yet. Perhaps I could start negotiations with Spain for land?

  6. #66
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Go for it I guess, you're the SoS after all

  7. #67
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Alrighty then.

  8. #68
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    OK folks, it's the start of a new turn and the year 1793.

  9. #69

    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Occupation rolls :
    Planter : 4
    Religious Leader : 2
    Thinker : 1
    Farmer : 4

    Provided nobody has a problem with the rolls.
    Last edited by Xion; March 23, 2014 at 08:37 PM.

  10. #70
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Thanks Rose, between writing the 1793 events + RL stuff I just didn't have time to do the rolls this turn. Hopefully next week will be different.

  11. #71
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Alright folks, in light of the recent dearth of activity in Congress & upon further research I've found that not all that much was done in terms of groundbreaking domestic policy within the US from the end of the Whiskey Rebellion to the Era of Good Feelings; we had the Alien & Sedition Acts, and maybe the Louisiana Purchase if you see that as a real issue over the limits of federal power, but that was about the extent of it - and I don't see that changing too much in-game since we're keeping the original generation of characters, with views appropriate for their time. That means: Trail of Tears? Not possible, gold hasn't been discovered in Indian territories yet & not enough people are rabidly racist enough to want it. The question of slavery? Not a nation-breaking issue yet, even Southerners are in the 'we realize it's a necessary evil but an economic necessity for us, so let's just shove it under the carpet & talk about how nice it would be to abolish it' mindset at this time. The Northwest Indians? Not really a domestic matter for Congress since 1) they're armed & fighting, so it's a job for the LOTUS, and 2) they're still kinda getting help from the British. Industrialization and the American system? US industry isn't powerful enough to really make the planters go 'hot damn, a Yankee threat to our way of life' instead of 'oh, a few textile mills & mudsills? That's nice honey'. This, combined with our disappointingly low number of House players, means the HoR is pretty much useless at this time unless you guys want to spend all of your time greenlighting recruitments & infrastructure expansion orders. And since the House isn't getting much done, that means a whole third of the Senate's job (review, debate & approve/disapprove of House legislation) is gone too. I'd have to say that if we continue, the 1792 game will steadily become one that's all about foreign policy (and occasionally beating Indians over the head with the LOTUS), not the traditional WEF formula of balanced domestic & foreign affairs.

    In light of all this, would you guys prefer to jump ahead to a more domestic-centered year like say, 1828? At least then we'll have a second generation of characters who can have way more radical and ahistorical views, the death of the First Party System (so no boring Era of Good Feelings where everybody's on the same side), a much bigger batch of Western states to add a third side to the New England/South battle over the country's future, the Trail of Tears, the fight over the Bank, the Nullification Crisis, and Texas (well, right around the corner anyway) for you guys to deal with. Capping it all off, 1828 is an election year that lacks our electorally-invincible Washington (his son or grandson however can totally show up if Kip so wishes), which means an actually competitive election for you guys to fight right out of the gate. 1844 and the Mex-Am War might be too far ahead since then we're getting into a third generation of characters, at the least we should get through the Texan War of Independence first to lay down the historical & thematic background for that Obviously though you'd miss the Napoleonic Wars, chances to do anything really ahistorical (like Poole copying Cels' guy from 1.0 and abolishing the slave trade by exec order) and your OG characters will have to die or otherwise retire (most would be pushing their 80s or 90s by that year iirc) so I can understand if you guys would rather stick to 1792. What do y'all think?

  12. #72
    Pericles of Athens's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    I'm all for moving on to more interesting times, the current environment is getting a bit stale for my taste. That is, of course, under the assumption that you will allow us to shoehorn our characters(and their children or children's children as the case may be) into the timeline at pivotal points.
    Last edited by Pericles of Athens; March 25, 2014 at 10:00 AM.


  13. #73
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    But of course, we'll still do what we did with the 1792 timeline and have a TL & char-planning thread to get the cast involved in the intervening years as well.

    That said, this would mark the second time a WEF's been shut down prematurely. I say if we go ahead with the jump, we need to fix a minimum end-date that we've really got to reach. Say, 1836? That means eight RL weeks from an 1828 start, so from say now into May. That conveniently leaves us the mid & late summers for future WEF iterations, like that Mex-Am one I mentioned earlier.

  14. #74
    Pericles of Athens's Avatar Vicarius Provinciae
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Also we're gonna need a greater spread of people. We can't have everyone focused in the Northeast with homogenous opinions like we did this time, we need relatively even amounts of Southerners and Westerners too (with conflicting beliefs which sparks conflict) so things are interesting.


  15. #75
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Well that's the point behind a new game set in at least 1828, the Westerners become a viable faction as opposed to a minority of economically & politically pretty insignificant, largely unorganized backwoods settlers. As of 1828, in the interest of having three competing factions to generate activity I can see a three-party system arising after the Low Federalists & National Republicans break away from the extreme wings of their respective parties:

    1. The Federalist Party, actually just made of the High Federalists now. Based mostly in the Northeast and the big cities. Supports a powerful federal government, high tariffs, cordial relations & peace with the rest of the world to permit uninterrupted trade, government-subsidized industrialism, a Bank and the expansion of national infrastructure. Firmly committed to abolitionism and other progressive causes (might we see a big business-backed alliance of abolitionists/freedmen and immigrants against the nebulous 'WASP aristocrats of Dixie & Midwestern nativists' instead of the bitter, often racially motivated competition & rivalry between them that we got OTL?). In summary: a party of big business, liberal intellectuals, centralists, the black man and possibly immigrants. In three words: progressive, urban, industrialist.
    2. The Whig Party, formed from a merger of the Low Federalists & National Republicans. Based mostly in the West, starting from Ohio down to Tennessee, but with some support across the entire country. Supports a middling federal government, low to moderate tariffs depending on whether they're batting for agrarianism or industrialism, Western expansion to the Pacific, may or may not support the Bank, and supports the expansion of national infrastructure. Socially they're pretty ambivalent - historically the Midwest was simultaneously the birthplace of the GOP & the producer of most Copperheads, and counted both Abe Lincoln and Stephen Douglas among their greats - but as a rule progressive Whigs won't be as radical as the Federalists, and the conservative Whigs won't be as conservative as the Democrats. In summary: a party of small businesses, 'can't we all just get along' moderates, both abolitionists & slavocrats, both those tolerant towards immigrants and nativists, and Western expansionists, with support all over the country but most heavily concentrated in the Midwest. In three words: moderate, broad, ambivalent.
    3. The Democratic Party, actually just made up of the Arch-Democrats now. Based in the South, of course. Supports a weak federal government, low tariffs, agrarian policies to accommodate the planters' view of society and to throw a populist bone at their other base of poor uneducated farmers, Western AND Southern expansion for moar slave states + radically anti-Indian policies to clear the way for the white man, opposition to the Bank, and state-based expansion of infrastructure rather than letting the fedgov do it. In summary: a party of planters, conservative intellectuals, poor farmers, slave traders and extreme expansionists. In three words: slavocratic, rural, agrarian.

    Note that populism is not going to be restricted to one party. It is entirely possible to be a Federalist industrialist who supports a primitive welfare system for the black & immigrant votes, a Whig man born with a silver spoon in his mouth who boasts about how he was totally born in a log cabin and spent his days working with fellow frontier badasses, or a Democratic planter who goes full Jackson and argues for the universal male franchise in hopes of courting even more poor farmers to your side.

    I'm also thinking of allowing three auxes this time to allow even fully military-minded players (those who'd normally have a general/admiral pairing) to participate in the political side of things.
    Last edited by Barry Goldwater; March 25, 2014 at 11:06 AM.

  16. #76

    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Perry, the spread of people can't be forced..and I looked through the 1792 signup thread, it seem pretty even with a slight skewing towards the Northeast. But with more states, some players may move their characters to a new region. Politically, eh..read what Barry posted above. May even be room for a fourth player-designed party.
    Last edited by Xion; March 25, 2014 at 11:07 AM.

  17. #77
    jacb547's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    If the spread out of player political parties is the case we might try to abolish the idea of alts having the same political beliefs as our mains, maybe not the two opposites but I'd totally play a moderate Senator (In order to continue the Braxford family) and a Southern representative or General.
    "We all know whatmy brother would do. Robert would gallop up to the gates of Winterfell alone, break them with his warhammer, and ride through the rubble to slay Roose Bolton with his left hand and the Bastard with his right. I am not Robert. But we will march, and we will free Winterfell … or die in the attempt."

  18. #78
    Barry Goldwater's Avatar Mr. Conservative
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Fair enough point, I can allow combinations of moderates & radicals, just not two diametrically opposed radicals. What does everyone else think?

    If you're keeping the New England Braxfords you might wanna go Federalist though, after all NE is the Federalist stronghold + they're definitely a party of big business; I can see a New Englander Whig, but he'd have to come from one of the less industrialized inland states like Vermont, Massachusetts & its coastal friends were the big business capitals of America at the time. American socialism hasn't really grown yet and when it does it'll most likely be strongest in the rapidly-growing industries of the future Rust Belt, ie. cutting right through the Whigs' stronghold in the Midwest.

  19. #79
    Watercress's Avatar Praeses
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    Eh I'm somewhat hesitant with this time-skip, if only because I'm not sure which camp to through my successor, James Lamberth, into :p I had in mind a pro-slavery, nativist bigot who nonetheless supports big, federal government - something I doubt he could advocate in any of the factions.

    "Only Connect!...Only connect the prose and the passion, and both will be exalted, and human love will be seen at its height. Live in fragments no longer."

  20. #80
    Agamemnon's Avatar Comes Limitis
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    Default Re: Where Eagles Fly 3.0 - The 1792 Edition

    So Barry, I intended to take Charles Eggers (and later his son) and colonize Texas, then lead the Texan Revolution with either his son or his grandson. If we skip ahead to 1828, can I play as one of my chars the leader of the Texas Revolutionaries and have the Eggers family replace Austin and Houston? I was really hoping for an Era of Good Feelings start so I could do some Texas stuff.

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