Syracusan Units

[myself]

The OP makes a great suggestion. I personnaly would love to see the Gastraphretes being implemented in the game (event though it's a little bit out of the time scope of the game). This and some kind of Archimedan Ballista, to represent the genius of Archimedes. And also a few flavouring other units like Syracusan cavalry (and others... well, basically what the OP said).

[GideonAI]

The OP makes a great suggestion. I personnaly would love to see the Gastraphretes being implemented in the game (event though it's a little bit out of the time scope of the game).

What about the Manuballista, designed by Hero of Alexandria?

[jamreal18]

Syracuse and Athens have EXACTLY the same unit roster....

[AnonMilwaukean]

I think they probably never really intended to give Athens the Picked Hoplites unit. It probably became more of an idea after they gave Epirus a bunch of units. I mean, Sparta always had some fun unit, and then all-of-a-sudden Epirus got buffed with Illyrian Levies, Royal Peltasts, and even a few more (though the Molossian Dogs only got added by BoW, not by a free update).

Seriously. Once Epirus got a bunch of new toys, they probably looked at Athens and realized how Athens really lacks a higher-end unique Hoplite unit (Light Hoplites are unique to Athens, but are pretty much a slight step up above militia hoplites IIRC).

All of that said, I agree that they could do more with Syracuse. And who knows, maybe some time after HatG comes out, they will add something.

[RexImperator]

I think they probably never really intended to give Athens the Picked Hoplites unit. It probably became more of an idea after they gave Epirus a bunch of units. I mean, Sparta always had some fun unit, and then all-of-a-sudden Epirus got buffed with Illyrian Levies, Royal Peltasts, and even a few more (though the Molossian Dogs only got added by BoW, not by a free update).

Seriously. Once Epirus got a bunch of new toys, they probably looked at Athens and realized how Athens really lacks a higher-end unique Hoplite unit (Light Hoplites are unique to Athens, but are pretty much a slight step up above militia hoplites IIRC).

All of that said, I agree that they could do more with Syracuse. And who knows, maybe some time after HatG comes out, they will add something.

Eprius' roster is still pretty boring though and needs more work. Right now they're just Macedon's clone.

[IGdood]

Eprius' roster is still pretty boring though and needs more work. Right now they're just Macedon's clone.

This, though they were almost clones historically even though they had different terms for their elites (Molossan vs. Companion cav, Chaoenon Agema vs. Argyspides, Pheraspides vs. Peltastai Makedonikoi, etc.)

However, perhaps giving them the entirety of the Illyrian culture's roster as cheap auxiliary troops would be a good move

[Nicolaos]

Did you really expect more effort from CA?

[neoptolemos]

The tyrants were not kings but rather short of like Roman dictators

[Sherm]

The tyrants were not kings but rather short of like Roman dictators

Well, not really dictators in that sense, especially if we are talking about Syracuse. They were military leaders who used their power to take control of the institutions,
establishing a dynastic power, driving out rivals. Agathocles, following the ellenistic kingdoms, proclamed himself King (Basileus) of Sicily, Hiero II was also King of Syracuse.

[RexImperator]

The tyrants were not kings but rather short of like Roman dictators

As Sherm said.

Hiero was king, his son Gelo probably had co-kingship with his father but died before Hiero. Hieronymus, Hiero's grandson and Gelon's son followed his grandfather on the throne before being ousted.

[neoptolemos]

As Sherm said.

Hiero was king, his son Gelo probably had co-kingship with his father but died before Hiero. Hieronymus, Hiero's grandson and Gelon's son followed his grandfather on the throne before being ousted.

Yup that would be like 3-4 tyrants out of how many?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ts_of_Syracuse

Plato and Aristotle define a tyrant as, "one who rules without law, looks to his own advantage rather than that of his subjects, and uses extreme and cruel tactics—against his own people as well as others".^[3] During the seventh and sixth centuries BC, tyranny was often looked upon as an intermediate stage between narrow oligarchy and more democratic forms of polity. However, in the late fifth and fourth centuries, a new kind of tyrant, the military dictator, arose, specifically in Sicily.

Sicilian tyrants

The tyrannies of Sicily came about due to similar causes, but here the threat of Carthaginian attack prolonged tyranny, facilitating the rise of military leaders with the people united behind them. Such Sicilian tyrants as Gelo, Hiero I, Hiero II, Dionysius the Elder, Dionysius the Younger, and Agathocles maintained lavish courts and became patrons of culture.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant

[RexImperator]

Yup that would be like 3-4 tyrants out of how many?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ts_of_Syracuse

Depends on how you look at it, it 3 of 3 in the time frame of the game.

[Sherm]

Yup that would be like 3-4 tyrants out of how many?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ts_of_Syracuse





http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tyrant

The point is that the roman traditional dictatorship had a proper role in the roman republic, instead a "tyrant role" in the greek world does not exist, but he is only who occupies the institutions of the city. In Sicily happened especially with a dynastic power and territorial power (Deinomenids and Dionysii), finally during Hellenism the possibility to be called "Kings" [Basileus] was opened, Agatochles reign is considered the more "Westen Hellenistic Kingdom". The fact that the presence of Carthage in the island was used to maintain the power is true, but was not used to be elected as "dux" for emergencies. As you posted, the ancient greek historian and intellectuals already realized that the archaic tyrannies in greece were different to the ones continued for the Siceliotes, becouse the Siceliote ones tended to construct strong territorial domains and dynastic ties beyond the border of the Polis, doing more than simply be something in the middle beetween different political forms within internal struggle and rivalries beetween aristocrathics. Lately happenend that the latin term dictator was used as synonim of Tyrant and viceversa even if they are not are not exactly the same thing, to say "who is threat against liberty" (is the actual meaning, but different from the original). But this happened in imperial age, after Civil Wars, personalism and divinized emperors.

Said that:

1. Considering the game timeframe is reasonable mention also the word Kings
2. De facto the difference beetween a Siceliote Tyrant and a Siceliote King is almost only in name
3. The roman traditional dictatorship, as "Extraordinary Role" is a different story
4. If we are talking about Caesar, probably that was the moment were the term "dictator" and "tyrant" start to be melted in the greek-latin culture, cause the situation.

Bonus consideration: The fact that Timoleon in the Wiki was listed without problem simply as "Syracusan Tyrant", is very very debatable.

[perifanosEllinas]

Nice suggestions

[Dumanthis]

I am a bit worried for these new factions because they come in DLC and if you dont buy that DLC they will get locked for you not also in HatG but also in grand campaign. I will probably not buy this expansion and I am a bit sad I can't play as Lusitani, Arevaci or Syracuse no more

[RexImperator]

Found some others, I made up the names but these guys did fight during the second punic war.

-Consecrated
After the first punic war Syracuse had dramatically reduced arms production, when it looked like war was on the horizon with Rome the people of Syracuse took arms and armour dedicated to the gods from the temples. Trophies from Carthaginians, greeks and ironically Gauls and Illyrians which had been given to Hiero II as gifts for his loyalty were used to arm the populace and promised the Gods that they would be used in defence of the Freedom of the City.

-Desperate Ones
A mix desperate mercenaries, the urban poor of Syracuse, freed prisoners and deserters from the roman Army and Fleet. Historically the Carthaginian agents Hippocrates and Epicydes enrolled these men to fight off Rome in the name of Syracusan freedom.

[jamreal18]

I hope they address Syracuse unit roster in patch notes later...
Having 2 factions field exactly the same unit roster is a no-no...