War against Rhun

[gaaxure]

Hi. I'm a newcomer to this mod, although i deservedly consider myself a veteran of total war series having played every game since RTW.

Now i decided to play TATW i started as Dale. the economy sucks and recruitment is slow but that's nothing at least some it's challenge for the change. the worst part is the war against Rhun it's Effing frustraiting they keep spawning full stacks out of nowhere. Which are composed of low quality skirmishers and missile cavalry. So I have absolutely nothing to fight them with. I can't fight them with infantry because they keep retreating when i get close, can't fight them with cavalry because they just end up decimated by the point they reach to engage in melee and then get overrun and routed. Plus Dalish cavalry isn't that strong to begin with(the ones that are worth recruiting cost too much, and gather up too slowly to be thrown away on such tasks). I tried fighting fire with fire, but first of all it's exhausting and takes forever to chase skirmishers with skirmishers, second casualties are too high, third you have to micromanage everything and last but not least it's no fun to play with low grade javelinmen when you can recruit various armies. seriously kills all the fun in the campaign.


TL;DR Rhun only recruits full stacks of skirmishers and annoyes the hell out of me can someone share some tactical advice on fighting them in field battles.

[ElvenKind]

There is a Dale Guide here if you want to look at: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...-H-H-amp-VH-VH

[Æsir]

First line skirmishers with spearmen on flanks. Second line - archers. Third line some cavalry (only to chase down routing troops or to flank if realy necessary) and axemen to counter general and other heavy cavalry after penetrating trough your first two lines. You ar wellcome!

[Dude with the Food]

Hearth Watchemen are your ultimate cannon fodder. Cheap, easy to get hold of and when it comes to fighting Rhun, they have a cavalry bonus. Behind them you need solid infantry which Dale has plenty of, middle-tier is most practical for price again. Not loaads of them but enough.

For fighting Rhun, cavalry is a must have but where with other factions, I'd try and cripple Rhun's cavalry, Dale has to hold them long enough to wear them down and destroy the infantry. Given Dale's weak cavalry, the alternative is hide your unit of cavalry behind your lines to chase down fleeing skirmishers so you won't have to face them again.

You do have one advantage over Rhun other than your the human - you have longbows. Balchoth Tribesmen are destructive at close range but can be halved before they do the damage. Other than the Loke-regiments, Rhun's infantry has little to nothing to stop archers and with their big horses, cavalry is hardly harder to hit? If half your army is archers then a quarter hearth watchmen, a cavalry unit and the 4 heavy infantry, you can decimate cavalry and skirmishers before they reach you.

[LuckyPistol]

Hearth Watchemen are your ultimate cannon fodder. Cheap, easy to get hold of and when it comes to fighting Rhun, they have a cavalry bonus. Behind them you need solid infantry which Dale has plenty of, middle-tier is most practical for price again. Not loaads of them but enough.

For fighting Rhun, cavalry is a must have but where with other factions, I'd try and cripple Rhun's cavalry, Dale has to hold them long enough to wear them down and destroy the infantry. Given Dale's weak cavalry, the alternative is hide your unit of cavalry behind your lines to chase down fleeing skirmishers so you won't have to face them again.

You do have one advantage over Rhun other than your the human - you have longbows. Balchoth Tribesmen are destructive at close range but can be halved before they do the damage. Other than the Loke-regiments, Rhun's infantry has little to nothing to stop archers and with their big horses, cavalry is hardly harder to hit? If half your army is archers then a quarter hearth watchmen, a cavalry unit and the 4 heavy infantry, you can decimate cavalry and skirmishers before they reach you.

This right here. It might not seem like a good idea, but get half of your army comprised of your archer units (other than your general). Dale cavalry will crush Rhunnic Clan Huntsmen. Those huntsmen and Variag Raiders are really the only long-ranged units you'll see Rhun recruit.

Besides that, most of Rhun's infantry is light armored, so let the arrows fly and use your infantry primarily for defense against cavalry. You really need to play half elven half horde techniques against Rhun: Wipe out half-most of their army with your arrows and then send in your infantry to swarm around what's left. I always keep 1-2 units of javelin men to use against the high armored General Bodyguard after your Hearth Fodder- excuse me- WATCHMEN engage them.

However, Rhun is only step 1 of the Dale campaign. Step 2 is Mordor, and you'll probably have to fight Mordor before you come close to writing Rhun off as a threat. Against Mordor you have to get your best infantry into gear. Switch out most of your longbows for javelins and cavalry, late game Mordor has higher armored units. This time you can use more conventional tactics, but still have a handful of your top tier archers as a trump card

[gaaxure]

However, Rhun is only step 1 of the Dale campaign. Step 2 is Mordor, and you'll probably have to fight Mordor before you come close to writing Rhun off as a threat. Against Mordor you have to get your best infantry into gear. Switch out most of your longbows for javelins and cavalry, late game Mordor has higher armored units. This time you can use more conventional tactics, but still have a handful of your top tier archers as a trump card

honestly i found fighting against mordor easy as pie as orcs are bunch of undisciplined, unmotivated, unskilled brutes there's just loads of them, but you can wear their numbers down while they are marching on you, or you're marching on them, with archers. then engage in melee. they will have low morale by that point because of casualties and final blow is flanking attack with cavalry which starts the frantic rout. that's like medieval warfare 101. i found Rhun more uncomfortable adversary because troops you need to fight them are basically useless with other enemies. so you have to have an extra army just for Rhun purposes so to speak.

[LuckyPistol]

honestly i found fighting against mordor easy as pie as orcs are bunch of undisciplined, unmotivated, unskilled brutes there's just loads of them, but you can wear their numbers down while they are marching on you, or you're marching on them, with archers. then engage in melee. they will have low morale by that point because of casualties and final blow is flanking attack with cavalry which starts the frantic rout. that's like medieval warfare 101. i found Rhun more uncomfortable adversary because troops you need to fight them are basically useless with other enemies. so you have to have an extra army just for Rhun purposes so to speak.

See its lets the orcs being formidable than it is more stacks upon stacks upon stacks, and by turn 40, those stacks have trolls. Plus there's always the stray Nazgul that leads an attack against anyone other than Elves or Gondor, meaning YOU But Mordor's bane is cavalry and archers as you said, which is thankfully Dale's stronger points.

My vs Mordor armies are usually heavier on infantry all the same, as in this case the anvil is more important than the hammer due to the large orc units. Also I've found javelins as the most effective troll slayer.

My vs Rhun armies are usually set up like a tank: High defensive infantry to defend high output of archers obliterating low armored units. Of course, I always have at least 2 cavalry units for flanking and clean up. However, MOS Rhun is a totally different ballgame

[DrDragun]

Rhun has lots of ranged units and will typically form up for archer fighting early in the fight. If you are fighting with small armies, archer duel them back without melee engaging. Your Generals are great for this, they have high armor and attack and they replenish their losses after the fight.

If you are fighting with bigger armies, use a disposable front line because they will take losses from javelins and you don't want your Earls and Hird dying that way. Run in and start the melee line, then hammer the ranged units with cavalry from the back/sides. Leave the melee line hammer+anvil until after you've routed the enemy ranged units. Your archers are great against Orc factions, but against Rhun I would recommend plain old Dale Cavalry hammering the ranged units and flanks. Yes, Balcloth and Clan Xbows are difficult to rout but remember that your cavalry are not expensive and easily retrained. Keep a couple of units of Gadraughts or Barding Hird with your general as well due to Rhun's strong cavalry roster and generals.

[Dude with the Food]

Oh yeah, I forgot about the Rivermen. They aren't as good as your archers or Rhun's Balchoth Tribesmen but a couple of units can devastate heavy infantry if your archers are busy with lighter targets.

With archers your main priority is Longbowmen. Woodsmen are die to quickly to any cavalry that outmanouvres you. Athala Ranger can hold their own in melee but they have recruitment/replenishment issues. Barding Marksmen are your best and possibly effective but generals are understrength and regular units come too late.

With cavalry, use Dale Cavalry. Yeomans aren't good enough unless you have 2 units sacrificing more important infantry or archers. Horseguards/Earls have the same problems as Barding Marksmen and Athala rangers combined but if you have money are nice to have. You are better off learning to use low/middle tier armies simply so you can have more. Against Rhun, it's better than having an elite stack to fight everything like Elves/Gondor/Dwarves could try.

[jinjo]

archers are base units for dale, general units are archers too, u should rely on them.
uldonavan - the key castle between rhun and dale, take it before rhun sieges it and military opportunity of rhun will decline greatly.
და რა თქმა უნდა კეთილი იყოს შენი შუახმელეთში მობრძანება.

[Dude with the Food]

A final addition, if you play defensively in campaign, I think there is a fort north of Dorwinion. That and Uldonavan are your main defences until you take the fight to them.

[scostens]

Use the terrain to deny them mobility. Bridges, Hills, towns, anything that forces their balchotch and horsearchers into melee.
If that doesn't work try using this: form up your hearth watchmen in schiltrom formation, but leave gaps in their line, where you deploy your archers.
something like this: O_O_O_O with O being a schiltrom and _ being a line of archers.
That make it difficult for the rhun cavalry to charge your archers while allowing your longbowmen to fire pointblank at your enemies.
When the rhun infantry engages your schiltrom you can flank them with archers or cavalry. As mentioned above, the hearthmen are easily retrainable and cheap.

Use a lot of archers in your armies, they're dale's strong point, especially during the early game.
As for targets, rhun usually sends it's horse archers in first, focus fire on them until they go into cantabrian circle mode then simply have 1 group of archers per group of Horse archers fire at them. Let the rest focus on the main army. User your cavalry to scatter the balcotch, but don't engage them. They are in skirmish mode so if your cavalry comes to close they'll run, buying your archers more time to mow them down. (And I do mean mow. Balcotch have almost no armor, so any archer group will make short work of them.) Rinse and repeat.

Tell me if it works. I'm playing an older mode of third age (2.1+FROME)

[gaaxure]

yup only thing that poses some threat when fighting against mordor are trolls although i usually have one unit of catapults to deal with them plus it provides extra security when assaulting cities and castles i break down the towers with them so i don't come under that ridiculous tower barrage that decimates even heaviest troops. sure i have to sacrifice some mobility but it's worth it + i can always ditch them whenever i need to move real fast.

[AqD]

You shouldn't fight field battles against Rhun. Their cities are very rich, and they have no capable melee units for defense except the golden ones, which take forever to replenish (and AI doesn't use these anyway).

Just flood their cities with cheap Dalesmen.

[Rad]

I recently started a VHVH campaign with Dale. Oddly enough, I am doing much better using turtling strategy compared to my previous campaigns where I tried to take the world by storm.

My advice is:
build up your economy;
take rebel cities, preferably by waiting them to surrender in order to minimize your casualties. don't attack rhun, take the four Rhovanion cities (2 cities and 2 castles actually) south of you;
garrison the forts for free upkeep reserves;
let the dwarves declare war on Rhun;
make peace with Rhun, charge them money for it;
disband any troops that you can't garrison for free;
Prepare your infrastructure until you are ready for serious conquest.

[Young Wolf]

i agree with Rad.....but for me Rhun is easy to conquer dont worry!!!!if you take the Rhovanion region you have them!!!!!