What modifications did you make to tailor EB to your preferences?

[ooji]

I am curious as to what changes other people made in their EB. For me, I used RS2 environment submod to improve the appearance and fix the trees. Since I don't like EB music, I picked my favorites from RS2 music and replaced EB ones. I've recently lowered shield value of phalangitai units from 5 to 3 since they're virtually indestructible by missle weapons. Even with shield value of 3, there's not much difference, but at least I get a kill here and there. Maybe I should lower their shield value even lower or reduce their armor. It would seem more realistic that way. Anyhow, tell me about yours!

[Ownager]

I leave units just how they are to maintain balance. The one thing I like to change is the bodyguard units. It's an interesting experience to use Ambakaro as Lusotannan general units and Solduros as Gallic ones.

[Kanov]

I like this thread.

Since I don't know how to mod most things and feel that EB is already balanced all around and that the unit stats, buildings etc have a delicate integration between them I don't dare to mess with it myself so I use other mods already tested. My setup is:

-RS environments
-Alex modification to play with alex exe (non extensive, just the vital files)
-Extended unit info mod

I would like to adapt the RS2 legions to use them as first cohorts or something but I would need to read a lot and trial and error etc, but I only have time for EB like 1 1/2 hrs a day.

Also would like to make available the trait that counts number of killed in battle, I was sure it was in EB but it must been in Extended culture or SPQR since those are the only other mods I've played. If anyone knows what I'm talking about and can provide instructions I would be very grateful.

[Ownager]

You're lucky. I only have time for 1 1/2 hours a week.

[Glaive]

I use Jirisys' Mega Mod pack for Alexander.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Gaesatae.

2 hit points,

Removed one.

They still are deadly and fearless, but they are not invincible.

I understand why they where boosted like that, but I don't share the point of views of the "pro"s.

I love playing against them, or with them. (I am not sure this sound right :p )

[ooji]

I leave units just how they are to maintain balance.

Well I feel that phalangitai units a bit overpowered in the sense they they hardly ever get casualties from ranged attacks. Other than that, I feel EB units are pretty balanced.

[Ownager]

Well, maybe you shoot at them from the front. That's like trying to take down a tank with Nerf guns. Shoot them in the back or sides, that will make them take more losses. Interesting thing though, my Kretan archers can take out atleast 20 elite African pikemen from the front. I wonder what's wrong with your guys.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Well, maybe you shoot at them from the front. That's like trying to take down a tank with Nerf guns. Shoot them in the back or sides, that will make them take more losses. Interesting thing though, my Kretan archers can take out atleast 20 elite African pikemen from the front. I wonder what's wrong with your guys.

Kretan archers are elite.

An arrow is an arrow, elite just aim better, better casualities rate.

But a non-elite should be able to inflict casualities to any units, pikemen or not.

They are no tank, they are humans, with shields (smaller) and pikes deflecting arrows. A lot of arrows should go through the pikes, and shields don't block a whole volley, so I don't say here that they sould all die at once, but one dead per volley, ten volley and you see where this is going.

That, plus the fact that arrows goes through metal, metal only deflect, it doesn't stop... meaning if the impact is perpendicular, it will go through, if the impact is not, it will probably deflect.

Arrows are so underrated

[Ownager]

Remember that they were the tanks of ancient warfare, or were those elephants? Atleast within infantry, they were the tanks, the heavy block. Arrows are underrated, I agree, but there is very little they can do to a well armored phalanx from the front. I think its just cause Silver Shields are very strong from the front.

[Leonidas II]

I installed the RS2 environment submod, since the EB environment looks extremely unatural and lifeless , and I love the new environments

[ooji]

Well, maybe you shoot at them from the front. That's like trying to take down a tank with Nerf guns. Shoot them in the back or sides, that will make them take more losses. Interesting thing though, my Kretan archers can take out atleast 20 elite African pikemen from the front. I wonder what's wrong with your guys.
Kretan archers are elite.

An arrow is an arrow, elite just aim better, better casualities rate.

But a non-elite should be able to inflict casualities to any units, pikemen or not.

They are no tank, they are humans, with shields (smaller) and pikes deflecting arrows. A lot of arrows should go through the pikes, and shields don't block a whole volley, so I don't say here that they sould all die at once, but one dead per volley, ten volley and you see where this is going.

That, plus the fact that arrows goes through metal, metal only deflect, it doesn't stop... meaning if the impact is perpendicular, it will go through, if the impact is not, it will probably deflect.

Arrows are so underrated

What Floren said. Pike infantry are not tanks lol. They have relatively small shield and they are not iron men. They can get hit in the neck, thigh, or other exposed parts. EB phalangitai units are literally unstoppable vs frontal ranged attacks. They can just sit there take thousands of volleys.

[Marly]

Most of changes are cosmetic...new eastern city models, changed a few unit cards etc

I've not altered the gameplay. I want to alter phalanxes a little tho too. I feel a bit more attack, less shield and lower morale would suit. That or reduce them to 160 men which is more in keeping with other heavy infantry.

They just don't die...I have them isolated and surrounded and still they live on. Without heavy lancer cavalry or elephants they're total tanks. IMO a non elite unit thats surrounded and taking casualties should break after a minute or two.

[ooji]

Marly, what models did you use for your eastern cities?

[ooji]

Well elite units like Silver Shields are supposed to be heavily armored. I was talking of phalangitai units in general, especially pantadapoi phalangitai. AI just spams them vs you and it is extremely annoying to get around them and do all the maneuvering to get around them. Even elite units like Silver Shield should still incur casualties though. Like I said, they are not iron men and not all of their body parts are covered with metal.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Even if they where made of steel...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KCE4...e_gdata_player

[Ownager]

I'm not saying they can't be defeated. They can. I defeated lots of elite pikemen like that. Horse archers are beautiful against them, but even they have limits and aren't as powerful as they could be. I remember as Pahlav, I had to charge in almost every time, even when all my units shot at one guy. By the way, in the video, the archer is firing straight ahead, while in EB they always fire overhead. I'm not an archer expert, but doesn't that mean EB has longer distances? I would expect the arrows to penetrate when fired straight, but this isn't target practice. In Eb they send showers of arrows from a sort of diagonal angle, not at a straight one.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

I'm not saying they can't be defeated. They can. I defeated lots of elite pikemen like that. Horse archers are beautiful against them, but even they have limits and aren't as powerful as they could be. I remember as Pahlav, I had to charge in almost every time, even when all my units shot at one guy. By the way, in the video, the archer is firing straight ahead, while in EB they always fire overhead. I'm not an archer expert, but doesn't that mean EB has longer distances? I would expect the arrows to penetrate when fired straight, but this isn't target practice. In Eb they send showers of arrows from a sort of diagonal angle, not at a straight one.

Actually, you are right and wrong at the same time :

Right : in a battlefield, you fire arrows at a rather long or middle distance. Even if when using archery at very close range from front, it doesn't change a thing : they all take a full volley of arrow in their face, and one die. Only the fact that more arrow are in the area of hit (per opposition with long distance where a lot of arrows doesn't hit), changes the result, but even then... You know, "that doesn't hurt a bit".

But you are wrong too by considering there is less energy in the arrows because they fired from afar.

Why ?

When unsing point blank shot (like on the video, or almost), here is what happens :

- You release the arrow and it is propulsed by the bow. The arrow obtain it's maximum speed at the end of the movement of the string, when the arrow is entirely released by the bow. After that, the arrow is decelerating constantly untill hitting the target.

"Yes", you will say, "but further is the targer, slower become the arrow". Yes, and no.
If the trajectory was a straight line, the speed would decrease constantly will finish by being completely nul.

But :

- When fireing at a far target, here is what occures : You release the arrow, it accelerate the same way than before, and obtain it's max speed at the end of the bow, decreasing in speed after that.
But since you have to hit a target further, you have to aim a little higher, it is called a parabolic trajectory. So, your arrow takes altitude, loose vertical speed and horizontal speed.
When the max altitude is optained (the famous "parabolic trajectory", not exactly parabolic but you know what it is), the arrow start to go down. And down. And down. Accelerating. vertically, while still losing speed horizontally. But the thing is : to calculate the energy dispersed from the tip of an arrow to the target, the valour needed is not the horizontal speed, it is the absolute speed. (vertical+horizontal)

So you are now with your shield, watching archer at long distance aiming quite high (45 degrees maximum, if more, it is an "indirect fire", able to hit people you don't see, for exemple), and virtually, the speed of the arrow comming at your is the original speed at the propultion, minus the friction forces that slow down your arrow at the descend, because of the feather, which by the way are studied to let the arrow take speed by allowing spinning to effect, increasing de facto the energy (circular speed is still speed...) at the impact.

So, you are right : further is a trick and you have less energy at the end. But you are wrong too because the energy is still enormous and is not a lot less, not as it could be excpected. Arrow have a mass, more than a bullet. A bullet, when losing it's vertical speed, fall dead. An arrow, or a spear, for exemple, will take back a lot of lost energy and still fall on the enemy, even at the vertical (indirect fire) and will make a rain of arrow on the troops.

Plus :

I don't know the real alloy for the silver shield, but sorry, silver is not a strong metal. It's like gold : maleable, it will bend and will not take back it's form.
Bronze cuirass are the contrary : very hard, but not solid (like glass) and will break by cleaving.

Steal is the most resistant metal in the history of armors (except of course modern protections in polymers etc) because it is iron (maleable like silver, a little less, but not very resistant) with carbon added, which harden the iron (not too much, if so, congratulation, you won have high density carbon iron, which is easily breakable) which gives iron the solidity and the flexibility allowing carbonated iron (steel) to be really resistant. Since the invention of steel (medieval times when it has been masterised, before that, iron was carbonated but it was not controled and was made more as en empiric method than a repetable method), steel stays on top of the metal used in cuirasses since WW1. (yes, it was still used in some units)

So, again, I understant they should be more resistant, but macedonian phalanges are the best units to fight other infantry. It is unbreakable, it advance and it kills, without beeing even hurt by the too small spear of the ennemi, or the sword. Five rank of spear shoulder to shoulder, able to cover for each other, sometimes for miles and miles long... It is unbreakable.

But nobody said anything anywhere that they where well protected against projectiles. They are not the most suited. Hoplites with large aspis have better shield, and if well armored, have more chance to survive arrows than macedonian phalanx.

Think about it : same armor, same helmet (or equivalent) and larger shield, able to cover them and their fellow, who have the same shield by the way so... If some can be more prepared against arrow, it's them, not phalanx.

God, History is fun.

[Ownager]

Amen.
Unfortunately, whether it is the games fault or the engine fault, phalangites are terribly strong in game, where they are seen mostly(unless you take part in reenactments). While I regret not being able to reply in as much detail as you, I can say that Silver shield pikemen didn't exactly use silver for their shields. The cost for that would be enormous, plus I think the name was more honorary than literal. If we were to name them after the material used, we would have weird names like Wooden shields or Plywood shields. Plus, while being in a dense formation may have made them easier to target and slower, it offers a lot more protection, kind of like a testudo except not as "all covering"., for lack of a better term.

[Ryoga84]

I am curious as to what changes other people made in their EB. For me, I used RS2 environment submod to improve the appearance and fix the trees. Since I don't like EB music, I picked my favorites from RS2 music and replaced EB ones. I've recently lowered shield value of phalangitai units from 5 to 3 since they're virtually indestructible by missle weapons. Even with shield value of 3, there's not much difference, but at least I get a kill here and there. Maybe I should lower their shield value even lower or reduce their armor. It would seem more realistic that way. Anyhow, tell me about yours!

I made a submod