1. The US have retaliated for the KGB bugging of their diplomatic personnel by deliberately identifying Russian intelligence operatives currently in Ukraine.
Ah yes, but not spotted by the US right away, it was picked up by users of the internet first, then further investigated by the SBU, to finally make it into a US article. Western media are being far more cautious before jumping to conclusions, not to fall victim to the same trend of russian media.
Guy with the beard i believe is Khamzat Gairbekov, you can check his resume, has taken part in units conducting cleansing. Quite famous in his own right. Type his name in google. That is were the picture of Georgia comes up and we no how much of a bloodbath that was. I knew about this 2 weeks ago, but without substantial evidence, i did not post. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borozdinovskaya_operation https://twitter.com/noclador/status/455478647726415872
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Igor Ivanovich Strelkov i "believe" is this chap, but may just be an alternative name for the bearded guy, despite that, his extremely wanted by the SBU. It's the circled guy from the same unit without the beard.
To read up further on this, this is the US article, that gives a detail analysis of these professional units working in Ukraine. here a snip from the article. BELOW http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/21/wo...to-russia.html
And Ukraine’s state security service has identified one Russian reported to be active among the green men as Igor Ivanovich Strelkov, a Russian military intelligence operative in his mid- to late 50s. He is said to have a long résumé of undercover service with the Main Intelligence Directorate of the Russian general staff, most recently in Crimea in February and March and now in and around the eastern Ukrainian city of Slovyansk.
So there you have it, there are green men working within Ukraine. Like in the video provided by Snuggin from VICE, some cleary admit to being in Crimea, what business do they have in East Ukraine? Other then to stir up trouble, and flaunt it knowing there presence, and Russia ready to invade at a pin drop, is all the blackmail they need towards the Kiev government. It's a shame to see good hearted people taken advantage of, and ukrainian soldiers surrendering there firing pin's to these under handed thugs, to avoid war, but that is the reality, and i don't blame them, it's a smart move, Kremlin wants a Civil war. So they can ride to the rescue and provide a snap referendum liberation.
Here a random photo of a journalist being assaulted in slaviansk for having a camera, crimean style. While there are reports of looting going on, jewelry stores and banks have closed up, why food & medicine outlets are being plundered.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
Just to put things back in perspective.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
2. We've now moved from the Czech scenario to Fall Weiß, where the Russians dump some dead bodies and accuse the Ukrainians of killing them.
yep indeed, this recent scandal with the russian media may make a couple of bodies turn up, this article seem to think so. The writer seems to express to the Kremlin to do a better job, but i think it's rather rude of him to interrupt, but i think he fears more loss of life to further propaganda.
According to Russian TV news accounts, ultra-rightist Ukrainian mercenaries attacked a road block manned by 26 unarmed pro-Russian civilians between two and three AM the morning of Easter Sunday. The Ukrainian extremists opened fire on the unarmed civilians manning the road block, killing two outright (another died later in the hospital). Fortunately, “self-defense forces” rushed to the scene and killed one attacker. The others threw down their weapons and supplies and fled into the forest. One was captured but died of blood loss before he could be questioned.Reporters at the scene saw two bodies, one of a local activist, the other dressed in fatigues. They did not see the other victim. Nor did they see the bodies of the two Ukrainian extremists supposedly killed in the gun battle. (Three unarmed pro-Russians were reported killed, but only one has been identified. If the other two were local innocents, I would imagine they would have been identified as such).
The Russian account of the event was carried on Russian television non-stop (See full You Tube) throughout Easter Sunday. The head of the Slavyansk pro-Russian “government” used the incident to call upon Putin to send Russian troops to the defense of local unarmed patriots. The Slavyansk gun battle could not have been better timed to disrupt the Geneva Agreements and to provide Putin an excuse to come to the defense of beleaguered innocent pro-Russian locals. The Russian TV account reported that the panicked attackers left behind a treasure trove of evidence before fleeing into the woods. Indeed, Russian cameras recorded piles of Right Sector badges, Nazi-like insignias, sniper weapons, the usual spent cartridges, what looks like $10,000 or so in hundred dollar bills. Among the more unusual finds were diapers, which the Russian correspondent explained are worn by snipers, as they hide for hours lurking to shoot innocent pro-Russian supporters. (Strange: If they are hiding, why not answer the call of nature in the woods?) The “Slavyansk massacre” shows again that Russian propaganda’s Big Lie does not work without mistakes. I have already reported the Guest-role actor, playing three different roles in a hospital bed in the town of Nikolaev, and the commander, in charge of the Donetsk city hall occupation, identifying himself as a Russian officer on live radio. The Russian TV coverage of the story of the “Slavyansk slaughter” starting early the morning of Easter Sunday contains a major blooper. The cache of so-called Right Sector paraphernalia, proudly displayed to prove its complicity, was already filmed by Russian TV cameras during the day of April 19 at least ten hours before the attack. (The camera crew did not bother to remove the date of the filming – the day of April 19). The April 19 film shows the same pile of Right Sector paraphernalia used the next day to prove Ukrainian extremist guilt in broadcasts throughout Easter Sunday (April 20)! (I imagine some TV personnel are losing their jobs or worse). The New York Times featured the “Slavyansk Massacre” in a piece entitled Mystery Gunfight in East Ukraine Sparks Blame, Counter-Blame. If the Times dug a little deeper, they could have solved the mystery themselves. The famous gun battle on the outskirts of Slavyansk was another example of faked footage of staged attacks. I am waiting with bated breathe for the funerals of the three pro-Russian local patriots gunned down by the Ukrainian neo-Nazis in cold blood. I would bet that, if there were really three deaths – and who knows if there was even a gun battle – two were activists from Russia. (Anyone can show footage of bullet-ridden burned out vehicles). Whether there was a gun battle or not. the main point is the fabrication of evidence pointing to the “extremists” whom the Russian say control Kiev. The Russians’ own TV footage proves fabrication of evidence beyond a shadow of a doubt. My word of advice to Russian propaganda specialists: Do not overdo it, like you did in Slavyansk. Who can believe that even spooked Ukrainian extremists would leave behind “perfect evidence” of who they are and what mischief they were up to? Try to be a little more subtle, please. In the meantime, let’s hope the Russians don’t go out and “harvest” a couple of bullet-ridden local bodies to prove their propaganda!
he has also posted two other articles that have been bang on the money, and backed up by the BBC and Putin himself.
Although i must admit, FSB do have methods of getting to people.
Alexander Litvinenko, who claimed that the Moscow apartment block bombs (and others) in 1999 had been organized by the FSB died a hideous death from polonium poisoning in London, with the main suspect, Alexei Lugovoy, a former FSB agent.
Also a lot of journalist are still be held by the separatist, dating back to crimea, and some more currently within east of ukraine by separatist. Link below is a handful of some of them so far. So kidnapping is still very much happening, like that in crimea. Graham from RT was kidnapped for a day, but was released, but obviously his employer lends some weight by mention of name, luckily for him. He seems to be slightly restricted atm, at first he was was uploading video to his youtube account left right and center, but reading a recent comment, RT are to get there hands on it first before he can process it on his YT account.
Thats just how people talk. I'm guessing children ended up missing school because people were afraid of violence breaking out, understandably.
...
It really does seem to be spontaneous uprisings by Pro-Russian individuals (plus whatever nationalists are streaming from Russia), though that does not mean they are local either. As the latest Vice dispatch confirmed at least a few of the armed dudes were from Crimea.
And as has been said way back in November, the ideal situation is probably still some kind of Ukrainian split or perhaps, even better, a new constitution.
yeah, no. random citizens from Donetsk, Crimea, and Kharkiv do not all randomly converge on a field outside of Kramatorsk to coordinate a blocking of APCs and working in tandem with the armed green men. Ukrainian citizens are not actually doing coordinated takings of buildings and police stations in tactical gear. it reeks more of turncoats taking some of the Kremlin money being handed out in eastern Ukraine right now and being told to be somewhere. once this blows over it'll be really hard for them to show their faces around that area again.
also it would be really hilarious for you to swiftly suggest an ideal solution is a split Ukraine or a change in constitution when the other millions of eastern Ukrainians are just going about their day.
Originally Posted by agentgb
The Russian TV account reported that the panicked attackers left behind a treasure trove of evidence before fleeing into the woods. Indeed, Russian cameras recorded piles of Right Sector badges, Nazi-like insignias, sniper weapons, the usual spent cartridges, what looks like $10,000 or so in hundred dollar bills. Among the more unusual finds were diapers, which the Russian correspondent explained are worn by snipers, as they hide for hours lurking to shoot innocent pro-Russian supporters.
ehehehehe
Last edited by snuggans; April 21, 2014 at 07:42 AM.
Lavrov seems to be implying that it's becoming unbearable to hold back from "liberating" the east of Ukraine. Apparently according to the calls they are getting, the south east is in lawless & chaos with many incidents of violence. That some bear faced lying if i'd ever seen any! Can't find the transcript, so this article will have to do for now.
Now i'm going to make a prediction, i reckon today Kharkiv government building will be stormed again. Apparently there are around a 2000 protesters, with lots coaches, and this erry statement to a journalist on twitter. Now remember when we saw that russian colonel instructing police of there new loyalty, and also the footage i show you of graham RT guy of separatist loading up police uniforms into a back of car. Well this is going to be a tactical play right here i think.
Photos proving Russian special forces linked to protests/seizures. First Pic on left is Georgia 2008. On Right same man in Slovyansk 2014. Second image down on right is the same man in Kramatorsk. On row 2, the left picture is him again in Russia. More descriptions at the link.
Last edited by Geronimo2006; April 21, 2014 at 07:44 AM.
So according to BBC regime in Kiev broke the Easter truce and a checkpoint guarded by protesters armed with bets got attacked by pro-government militants armed with firearms. At least 3 people are dead.
Also LOL at some posters "proving" that protesters are Russian because one of them has a beard, and another has a tacticool helmet from a surplus store. You guys are clearly grasping at straws here.
So according to BBC regime in Kiev broke the Easter truce and a checkpoint guarded by protesters armed with bets got attacked by pro-government militants armed with firearms. At least 3 people are dead.
Nothing in that source blames Kiev for the shooting.
Best/Worst quotes of TWC
Originally Posted by Kyriakos
While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.
yeah, no. random citizens from Donetsk, Crimea, and Kharkiv do not all randomly converge on a field outside of Kramatorsk to coordinate a blocking of APCs and working in tandem with the armed green men. Ukrainian citizens are not actually doing coordinated takings of buildings and police stations in tactical gear. it reeks more of turncoats taking some of the Kremlin money being handed out in eastern Ukraine right now and being told to be somewhere. once this blows over it'll be really hard for them to show their faces around that area again.
So should we treat this post like your usual incoherent ramblings, or do you for once have an actual source to prove that? You seem to "forget" how you were repeatedly called on not providing sources on your claims in this thread.
also it would be really hilarious for you to swiftly suggest an ideal solution is a split Ukraine or a change in constitution when the other millions of eastern Ukrainians are just going about their day.
I like how you speak on behalf of millions of people here. Of course, everyone who disagrees with your opinion is Putin's spy.
Logic? There are two sides in the conflict and one got attacked.
That doesn't mean the shooting couldn't have started with the pro-Russian separatists. They could have very much shot at the Ukrainians, then got killed themselves. Not a single source has said who stated who started the shootings. And thats all that matters.
Best/Worst quotes of TWC
Originally Posted by Kyriakos
While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.
They were unarmed.
Russian source Vesti says they had baseball bets. Can't really open fire with those.
My sources say they were armed.
Pro-Russian protesters at the roadblock told CNN on Sunday that as the attack got under way, they called for support, and armed men arrived to engage the attackers. Two burned-out cars were still at the scene Sunday afternoon, one of them riddled with bullet holes on one side.
Yuri Zhadobin, who coordinates the pro-Russia unit manning the checkpoint in the village of Bylbasivka, told The Associated Press he was with about 20 men celebrating Easter when unknown men drove up in four vehicles and opened fire about 3 a.m. "We began to shoot back from behind the barricades and we threw Molotov cocktails at them," Zhadobin said. Two of the vehicles caught fire and the attackers fled in the other two, he said.
Thats a pro-Russian himself claiming they were armed.
Originally Posted by Heathen Hammer
With what?
A gun. Otherwise how is the Pro-Russians claiming they killed one of the gunman?
CNN was not able to confirm the number of dead. Efforts to contact the hospital in Slaviansk were unsuccessful. But pro-Russian leaders in Slaviansk displayed a body briefly outside the State Security building in the town, which they have occupied for a week.They said the body was one of the alleged assailants.
Best/Worst quotes of TWC
Originally Posted by Kyriakos
While you are at it, allow Germany to rearm, it's not like they committed the worst atrocity in modern history, so having a strong army can't lead to anything pitiful.
So according to BBC regime in Kiev broke the Easter truce and a checkpoint guarded by protesters armed with bets got attacked by pro-government militants armed with firearms. At least 3 people are dead.
Also LOL at some posters "proving" that protesters are Russian because one of them has a beard, and another has a tacticool helmet from a surplus store. You guys are clearly grasping at straws here.
Talking about grasping at straws, when you just posted a link that it no way confirms your claims. =)
Using oppressed minorities as means of justification of military aggression or simply as propaganda, was the oldest trick in the book since Crusades (if not way earlier).
BONUS ROUND! HOW MUCH hypocritical IS THIS!
again the fun of this subforum, it makes me smile :3
yea but mods are created by fans of the series. Games are created by university students who might not necessarily know or play the games/series they're working on
Do the Eastern Ukes really want to be separated from the Western Ukes? Everybody gets that it all "started" with Ukrainians "in general" getting pissed at the government in Kiev, deposed, gone and so on. Which begs the question, were the Eastern Ukes on side with Putin and all his dillywacking BS before the Great Deposition in Kiev?
My source says Russian special forces staged the Slovyansk attack. He is very well connected with the local elites in both countries and is a former Soviet diplomat.
My source says Russian special forces staged the Slovyansk attack. He is very well connected with the local elites in both countries and is a former Soviet diplomat.
Who is your source?
Originally Posted by Geronimo2006
Photos proving Russian special forces linked to protests/seizures. First Pic on left is Georgia 2008. On Right same man in Slovyansk 2014. Second image down on right is the same man in Kramatorsk. On row 2, the left picture is him again in Russia. More descriptions at the link.
Spoiler Alert, click show to read:
This does not prove anything. Ever heard of a Programs for editing photographs? They sell worldwide, and yes, even in Ukraine, USA, Russia, Georgia etc..
Last edited by ElvenKind; April 21, 2014 at 12:28 PM.
American, French, Israeli and British government's ILLEGAL aggression against the Syrian people, without any proof for chemical attacks in Douma, and without waiting for OPCW to conduct their investigation..
Sons of *******, leave that poor, war torn country in peace.
If you are a citizen of one of these countries, then DO NOT ask any help from me on these forums, since, in protest against this aggression by your governments, I do not provide assistance/help anymore.
Let Syria be finally in peace.
- Russian army personnel, who were widely seen in Crimea many of which were clearly not there before. They have Russian trucks tanks and helicopters, haven't been seen since and clearly aren't in Ukraine proper at the moment.
- Well armed and obviously trained troops, probably Special forces but I also feel like they may be some ex-military group not directly linked to the Russian government, confirmed to have been in Crimea but more limited evidence of being in Eastern Ukraine. Mostly the evidence is of those men being photo identified in both regions. They probably were involved in the confiscation of Ukrainian APC columns, since those troops were clearly disciplined. Where else?
- Armed groups, they have pretty random equipment including some second hand stuff bought at military surplus stores, but they are also well armed with assault rifles for example. They are mostly occupying government buildings and some were (admitted to having have) been in Crimea or as being from Russia. These groups are probably just nationalists of various regional backgrounds, but they might to some extent also be mercenaries or ex-military personnel as well.
- Protesters, those who want to separate from the Ukraine or who want a new government or who just want to be out in the streets. Mostly not armed but are largely locals (doubtless some arrived from Russia and Crimea as well) but are also helping occupy various buildings and possibly manning checkpoints.
Quite a mess really.
But I find it interesting to note how common seeing assault rifles has become. I recall when the first Maidan protestors were shown with old rifles and pistols, and I thought that was pretty extreme already. Now military grade weapons and full military gear is the norm.
Also if it turns out we were financing the Maidan protests we sure did a crap job of it. I'd imagine we have a lot more money and experience with that kind of stuff by now so that at least our guys are capable of taking on more than medieval armies.
Originally Posted by snuggans
also it would be really hilarious for you to swiftly suggest an ideal solution is a split Ukraine or a change in constitution when the other millions of eastern Ukrainians are just going about their day.
Its an old idea, nothing new about it. There may be millions of Eastern Ukrainians there, but there are millions of Russians too. I would assume that there are more Pro-Russian Ukrainians than Pro-Ukrainian Russians as well, but the point is that until these places are marginalized or separated they will continue to force Ukraine to deal with Russia and prevent it from having a truly independent national policy and identify.
Sure these places have economic importance but a long term relationship with the west will more than make up for it, as well as allow Western Ukraine to have reason to develop too.
And it doesn't matter how small and insignificant the separatist sentiment in Eastern Ukraine is, since that's whats causing this crises. Its more than enough to destabilize the whole Ukraine and to give Russia reason to intervene as they are.
Last edited by Sire Brenshar; April 21, 2014 at 12:35 PM.
"Nobody is right, but historians are more right than others"
so what you're saying is that the "Kiev regime" sent those cars there to attack a random checkpoint? i'm gonna have to ask for a source here.
I just posted an article in my previous post. Also, since you conveniently ignored my previous post,, then you agree that you have no source and that you've lied?
Lol. Wanna just cut to the chase and take your sources from Volkisher Beobachter?
Thats a pro-Russian himself claiming they were armed.
Regardless (Fox was caught lying a lot of times), how does it change the fact that kiev broke the truth? Your source from FOX also says they were the ones attacked first.
A gun. Otherwise how is the Pro-Russians claiming they killed one of the gunman?
There were other protesters in the area who were armed. However, even your source says it was the other side that fired the first shots.
Originally Posted by StarDreamer
Talking about grasping at straws, when you just posted a link that it no way confirms your claims. =)
I've provided sources from my claims, yet resident Kiev apologists rarely post any evidence to their claims.
Originally Posted by VarrKhaitan
again the fun of this subforum, it makes me smile :3
So you admit that it is overused only in situations when it is convenient for your viewpoint? Obvious doublethink is obvious.
Re: Ukraine and Crimea development thread
Originally Posted by Condottiere 40K
either, two spelling mistakes i've seen so far, not that i'm any better...
