Ukraine and Crimea development thread

[Roma_Victrix]

8 Soldiers killed in an ambush by martians today.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-27396448

Ma...martians? Oh, I get it...is that a little pun meaning "aliens" or something? You know...illegal aliens from Russia.

CNN is trying to manipulate the public to continue watching CNN.

Your eyes can't turn away from the majesty of Wolf Blitzer once he enters...THE SITUATION ROOM!



Majestic.

[snuggans]

VICE on referendum day. they were interrupted by militants in the middle of an interview, taken to the building and asked for their memory cards.



so, it seems that even if western media does what some of the people here want them to do, like getting the Russian side of the story in their reports, even if they try to, they're still harassed by the militants while doing so! so at this point i don't really know exactly WHAT you want western media to do.

[The Alcotroll]

Ma...martians? Oh, I get it...is that a little pun meaning "aliens" or something? You know...illegal aliens from Russia.

It was the nickname the Ukrainians gave to the unidentified soldiers who started appearing everywhere- so called because of their all-green outfits, and the fact that while they most definitely didn't come from Russia, they weren't from the ing Crimea either.

The Martians are a lot more camera-shy in Ukraine, but they're clearly present. Look at the footage of separatist activities and you tend to see a lot of local militia, which are mostly fat old men and skinheads in tracksuits, carrying AKs with one or two mags in a spare pouch. Behind them are the 'self defence forces' in a mish-mash of scavenged kit and lofting RPG 7s and 22s. Meanwhile, Ukrainian special forces and interior ministry troops are making attempts to advance on rebel-held areas, supported by armour and aviation. In the process they've lost something like four Hinds and several APCs, not to mention a fair few killed or wounded.

Whoever has been holding them up, fending them off and ing them up; its not the poorly-armed and disorganised thugs and loud-mouths allowing themselves to be filmed by the reporters.

[Geronimo2006]

Russians ditch ruble en masse, data shows
CNN: Ukraine favors Europe over Russia, new CNN poll finds
54% want to join EU

Nationwide, a slight majority (54%) said it would be good for Ukraine to join the EU. More than eight out of 10 (82%) said it would be bad for the country to have Russian troops in Ukraine.

[pajomife]

Russians ditch ruble en masse, data shows
CNN: Ukraine favors Europe over Russia, new CNN poll finds
54% want to join EU

We can ask the Europeans if we want they here?
Is that I ,taking surveys for European elections,presume not.

We can ask the Europeans if we want they here?
Is that I ,taking surveys for European elections,presume not.

[Roma_Victrix]

That CNN report relies on the Comres Poll, which looks fairly legit to me:

http://www.comres.co.uk/

Could it be? CNN actually doing its homework rather than spending half a day following a live car chase?

[pajomife]

I can link the new but seems that the Ukrainian army suffered a ambush and have lots of casualties.Six deaths and lost 3 vehicles.In kramatov,or else.

[Verr]

Ma...martians? Oh, I get it...is that a little pun meaning "aliens" or something? You know...illegal aliens from Russia.

i think the original design of martians, green with that big green head, is indeed coming from GIs.

their WW2 large round helmets, sometimes worn like a cappy, really remind me of some martians designs i know of.

something like that:
http://media.indiedb.com/images/game...1/Martiens.jpg

may be they had someting smiliar to this postraumtic stuff from iraq and afghanistan which made them "alien".

area 51 could be "A ResEArch of alien behavior 1951".



the use of the term martians could also refer to the god of war "mars" meaning they are warmongers or something like that or the american plans to visit planet mars:
hey usa we got martians right here, better travel to this location.

btw dont the usa need airforce to protect taiwan?

[ivan_the_terrible]

A very intelligent opinion piece from someone with a thorough understanding of the situation:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...523249486.html

Both the West and Russia appear to be describing the conflict in Ukraine in the same ethno-national terms as those in former Yugoslavia. Western politicians and media accuse Russia of imperialism and revanchism, reducing the extremely complex Russo-Ukrainian mutual history and densely intertwined cultures to the primitive and rather unhelpful empire-colony model.

At the same time, Russian propaganda is peddling a ridiculous grotesque image of Ukraine being taken over by extreme nationalists, who - it claims - want to ban the Russian language and eliminate every bit of Russianness in a country, where at least half of the population speaks Russian in daily life.

....


The ethnicisation of the Ukrainian conflict suits the Kremlin. Its worst nightmare is a Ukraine growing into an alternative Russia - a better place for talented and entrepreneurial Russians to live and work than Russia proper. Or even worse - a united pro-democracy front rising against the mafia state in all of the former Soviet republics, with Ukraine in the lead.

The West misinterprets Putin by thinking that he wants to rebuild an empire - it is much more likely that the real goal is a compact, monoethnic and ultra-nationalist Ukraine, with the Russian element reduced to a minimum. Being intimately linked to Russia at many different levels, a successful, democratic and tolerant Ukraine threatens the existence of the mafia state and that's what is at stake for the Kremlin rulers.

His assessment of the situation in the country is spot-on, in my opinion. However, I think he overestimates Ukraine's potential to overcome the culture of corruption and nepotism (the uniquely Ukrainian kumovschina) -- reforms enforced from the outside are not going to be enough, in my opinion, especially in the IMF context. But that's a matter for debate; his immediate points are very sound.

[Condottiere 40K]

It's not a new view, though that may just be part of Putin's rational.

[Condottiere 40K]

I was looking for material for Russian homosexuality, basically the sauna scene in Red Heat, but the trailer sums up the situation in the Ukraine:

[Dromikaites]

A very intelligent opinion piece from someone with a thorough understanding of the situation:

http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opi...523249486.html



His assessment of the situation in the country is spot-on, in my opinion. However, I think he overestimates Ukraine's potential to overcome the culture of corruption and nepotism (the uniquely Ukrainian kumovschina) -- reforms enforced from the outside are not going to be enough, in my opinion, especially in the IMF context. But that's a matter for debate; his immediate points are very sound.

Having done business in Ukraine and Russia I can tell the corruption and nepotism are similar to what Romania had up until 2004-2006.

The first to go will be nepotism, both in the public and private sector.

In the public sector EU inspired laws (forced by the EU down the politicians' throats) banning the hiring of relatives in administration or granting contracts to companies ran by relatives would deal with the issue pretty fast.

In the private sector it would take longer to hire professional managers instead of putting the relatives into key management positions. But the bigger the companies, the sooner the professional managers would be hired.

Corruption would take quite likely much longer to eliminate (the first visible results in Romania happened only after 10 - 15 years of EU pressure). That is because the anti-corruption laws need to be enforced, which requires extracting the police and the justice from direct political control and cleaning them up. Only then the anti-corruption laws will be actually enacted.

As for Putin's plan to extract the Russians from Ukraine by annexing pieces of the country, he was only able to annex Crimea because the Ukrainian military was taken by surprise. That window of opportunity has closed. What we'll see in the following days will be the Ukrainian government recapturing all the "independent" cities. Probably with people killed in the process. But people firing at the police and at the army are simply getting what they asked for.

However what will NOT happen after the control is regained will be the persecution of the Russian-speakers. First of all, because the EU and the US are closely watching the Ukrainian government's human rights track record and second because the Ukrainians themselves are already taking care about cleaning their own house. When the Right Sector issues joint statements with the Ukrainian Chief Rabbi it means it is game over for the extremist behavior.

[Lord of Nihilism]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but it seems Russia has forced the Ukraine to the negotiating table: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-regions-osce

Slightly comical since Kiev has insisted during the past few days that they won't negotiate with terrorists and would quell the rebellion, and now they're finally going to sit down at the negotiating table and contemplate a Russian backed plan none the less. Although, it remains to be seen if anything substantial will come of these talks. Who knows, these talks could end up like the Geneva talks between Syria and the FSA quite some time ago, with both sides leaving the table and nothing accomplished.

[Condottiere 40K]

Finally, he raised the recent sale of the S-400 anti-aircraft system by Russia to China. “What does that tell us about the Russians, that they are willing to sell the S-400 to the Chinese? The fact that Putin is willing to sell his seed corn is pretty significant.” Why? Refer back to the Chinese air chief’s need for only one F-35.

“The Chinese,” Dean said, “are going to buy one (S-400) and copy the hell out of it.” So Russia, Cheng concludes, really needs the money from the sale. Something to bear in mind as the Ukraine crisis evolves. A former senior American diplomat who knows Putin and the countries involved told me recently he thinks the Ukrainian moves demonstrate clearly that Russia is in deep trouble that will only grow worse as Putin grows more involved with the day-to-day management and sustenance of Crimea and eastern Ukraine.

http://breakingdefense.com/2014/05/c...love-the-f-35/

[Geronimo2006]

'Peoples Governor of Luhansk' has left Ukraine most likely to receive further orders from his Kremlin puppetmasters.

Ukraine's interim president and Verkhovna Rada speaker, Oleksandr Turchynov, has ordered the Prosecutor General's Office, the Security Service of Ukraine and the State Border Service to explain within the next three hours the reasons why the "people's governor" of Luhansk region Valeriy Bolotov on Tuesday, May 13 managed to leave the territory of Ukraine through the Dovzhansky checkpoint.

Meanwhile Prosecutor general names suspects from the Yanukovych appointed former Kiev city administration regarding involvement in the Euromaidan crackdown.

The Ukrainian Prosecutor General's Office has notified former Head of Kyiv City State Administration Oleksandr Popov, former Chief of the Ukrainian Interior Ministry's Main Office in Kyiv Volodymyr Koriak, as well as his former deputies, Oleksandr Marinenko and Petro Fedchuk, of being suspects in involvement in the crackdown on Euromaidan in Kyiv on November 30, 2013.

[Dromikaites]

Don't know if this has been posted yet but it seems Russia has forced the Ukraine to the negotiating table: http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...n-regions-osce

Slightly comical since Kiev has insisted during the past few days that they won't negotiate with terrorists and would quell the rebellion, and now they're finally going to sit down at the negotiating table and contemplate a Russian backed plan none the less. Although, it remains to be seen if anything substantial will come of these talks. Who knows, these talks could end up like the Geneva talks between Syria and the FSA quite some time ago, with both sides leaving the table and nothing accomplished.

Well, Kiev hasn't actually agreed on anything. The government simply thanked the OSCE for the plan and stated they have other ideas in mind:

In Brussels on Tuesday, Yatsenyuk thanked the OSCE for its plan but said Ukraine had its own proposals for ending the crisis and that the people of his country should settle the issue themselves. He disclosed no details of that plan.

There is no sitting down and no negotiating yet, nor an announcement that any negotiating might happen any time soon. More likely the operations against the separatists would continue till the entire territory (except Crimea, for now) will be under control.

Then some adjustments will be made, but I would expect they would be in the domain of preserving the cultural identity (guarantees for the use of the minorities languages in courts and when dealing with the authorities, public funding for education in the language of the minorities, etc). The EU would press for that, just like it has pressed those issues with all the East European members.

[Geronimo2006]

New poll (Razumkov Centre) shows Ukrainians closely divided on joining NATO. Opposition has dropped since the crisis from well over 50% to 41%, while support has jumped to 36% (I think historically the latter has been 25%). 52% favour joining EU. As ever Putin's KGB foreign policy only drives potential allies towards the West. Meanwhile refugees arriving in Kiev from the terrorist-occupied regions of Donetsk, Kramatorsk and Luhansk are to be housed in Mezhyhirya - Yanukovych's former cradle of sin.



Meanwhile Russian schoolchildren learning the alphabet are being told "C for Crimea, D for Donetsk, P for Putin". by Kremlin 'patriotic' org "Set".

"C" stands for Crimea, "D" for Donetsk and "P" for Putin – Russian schoolchildren have been offered a new way to learn the alphabet in the wake of the Ukraine crisis. Behind the project is a pro-Kremlin youth movement named Set (Network) which says its version of the ABCs symbolises Russia's values and helps promote patriotism among schoolchildren.

[Holger Danske]

Russian antagonism, it never fails. Perhaps they can feature as the villians of future 007 movies.

[Geronimo2006]

Kidnappings abound as the Donbass falls further into anarchy

Donetsk/Luhansk are starting to look like Chechnya in 1996-99 when countless hostages were being taken. One is the owner of Kramatorsk airport. His car has been seen being driven around by Alexander Mozhaev who talked to Vice News a couple of weeks ago as seen on youtube. A facebook page with a masked man claiming to have "got the " has neo-Nazi links, as many of the separatists seem to have. As I said before, the Russia Unity Party Gubarev was part of until 2006 is said to have been (I am told) neo-Nazi. Also the "Russian National Unity" organisation taped (heard plotting rigging of Luhansk referendum and you can hear it on youtube) is also neo-Nazi according to wikipedia. So who are the real fascists?

Coincidentally Sergey Aksyonov's party is called....yes you've guessed it. The Russian Unity Party. See a pattern here?

[ElvenKind]

What we'll see in the following days will be the Ukrainian government recapturing all the "independent" cities. Probably with people killed in the process. But people firing at the police and at the army are simply getting what they asked for.

This reminds me of the events in Maidan.. with few missing/changed words, the same/similar scenario, but, with different roles of participants:

What we'll see in the following days will be the Ukrainian government recapturing all the occupied buildings. Probably with people killed in the process.
But people firing at the police are simply getting what they asked for.