NSA Social Engineering

[Love Mountain]

More NSA controversy. This time it's rather interesting. Hijacked this from Phaedrus on OCN.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1469995/f...oy-reputations

Phaedrus2129][/CENTER]
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2...-manipulation/

mong the core self-identified purposes of JTRIG are two tactics: (1) to inject all sorts of false material onto the internet in order to destroy the reputation of its targets; and (2) to use social sciences and other techniques to manipulate online discourse and activism to generate outcomes it considers desirable. To see how extremist these programs are, just consider the tactics they boast of using to achieve those ends: “false flag operations” (posting material to the internet and falsely attributing it to someone else), fake victim blog posts (pretending to be a victim of the individual whose reputation they want to destroy), and posting “negative information” on various forums.

...

GCHQ describes the purpose of JTRIG in starkly clear terms: “using online techniques to make something happen in the real or cyber world,” including “information ops (influence or disruption).”

...

Critically, the “targets” for this deceit and reputation-destruction extend far beyond the customary roster of normal spycraft: hostile nations and their leaders, military agencies, and intelligence services. In fact, the discussion of many of these techniques occurs in the context of using them in lieu of “traditional law enforcement” against people suspected (but not charged or convicted) of ordinary crimes or, more broadly still, “hacktivism”, meaning those who use online protest activity for political ends.

The title page of one of these documents reflects the agency’s own awareness that it is “pushing the boundaries” by using “cyber offensive” techniques against people who have nothing to do with terrorism or national security threats, and indeed, centrally involves law enforcement agents who investigate ordinary crimes

...

No matter your views on Anonymous, “hacktivists” or garden-variety criminals, it is not difficult to see how dangerous it is to have secret government agencies being able to target any individuals they want – who have never been charged with, let alone convicted of, any crimes – with these sorts of online, deception-based tactics of reputation destruction and disruption. There is a strong argument to make, as Jay Leiderman demonstrated in the Guardian in the context of the Paypal 14 hacktivist persecution, that the “denial of service” tactics used by hacktivists result in (at most) trivial damage (far less than the cyber-warfare tactics favored by the US and UK) and are far more akin to the type of political protest protected by the First Amendment.

There's also been discussion on Reddit regarding the mods of /r/News, /r/WorldNews, and /r/Politics trying to delete and suppress all posts and articles related to this story, and discussion of possible group psychological manipulation on that website as well.
http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/co...hqnsa_use_the/

[Caduet]

/pol/ was right again.

At least TWC is too small and niche to probably need to worry about this.

On the downside it means a lot of posters here are just genuinely crazy or retarded.

[Love Mountain]

The American government is the greatest.

[Facupay]

Whatever it happened, it was the ZOG.

[Heinz Guderian]

The UK/US are considered "free" countries. So they cant just grab you off the street and torture you and then lock you up for years without trial. They have to condition their subjects in a different way. God damn it, this Snowden guy is like one of the Founding Fathers when it comes to rallying for freedom.

[Condottiere 40K]

It was when I was reading Pournelle's Falkenberg's Legion where the concept came up to corrupt databases to ensure that scientific research, particularly for military applications, wouldn't allow for some game changing leap, that I realized how that could be applied across the board.

And if you really think about it most regimes have already participated in this activity for millenia.

[craziii]

I have always known that sooner or later western countries would become more like china, but this is way, too, damn, fast! I estimated it to happen around the end of my life time, not the middle me.

[Phier]

Damn it, my cover is blown! And I would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for you meddling kids!

Thats really a horrible and hard to read bit of power point nonsense. I really hope my tax dollars didn't go to fund that. I did better by myself when I had to do a lot for presentations 14 years ago.

[Condottiere 40K]

American Secret Services have been steaming open envelopes for centuries: the steaming is now just virtual. And massive.

[Love Mountain]

American Secret Services have been steaming open envelopes for centuries: the steaming is now just virtual. And massive.

And expensive.

[Heathen Hammer]

And expensive.

And expensive at taxpayer's expense, might I add. You don't really expect Obama to play a spy from his own pocket, right?

[Dromikaites]

And expensive at taxpayer's expense, might I add. You don't really expect Obama to play a spy from his own pocket, right?

But do you realize that such measures are also accompanied by countermeasures, meaning the same agencies (and probably also most Western ones) also screen the Internet for anti-Western propaganda?

Like say, during the current crisis in Ukraine. Russians living in Russia don't need to worry unless they plan to apply for a Western visa any time soon. But those Russians living abroad might want to tone down their propaganda a notch or two.

Just saying...

[Heathen Hammer]

But do you realize that such measures are also accompanied by countermeasures, meaning the same agencies (and probably also most Western ones) also screen the Internet for anti-Western propaganda?

Like say, during the current crisis in Ukraine. Russians living in Russia don't need to worry unless they plan to apply for a Western visa any time soon. But those Russians living abroad might want to tone down their propaganda a notch or two.

Just saying...

That is why we have Charter of Rights and Freedoms. So NSA and Obama can suck on muh Constitutional Freedoms.

[Phier]

I'm still not quite sure what the fuss is about, especially with that unreadable power point. Unreadable in that its the sort of thing you listen to the speaker, hold your pen like you MIGHT take a note and then its all flushed down your memory hole.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

I'm still not quite sure what the fuss is about, especially with that unreadable power point. Unreadable in that its the sort of thing you listen to the speaker, hold your pen like you MIGHT take a note and then its all flushed down your memory hole.

You've just summed up my entire academic career thus far there.

But on topic, why is this bad? (Not that i'm defending it), I'm more failing to see why this is a danger to Western society and us personally? What's the point really?

[justicar5]

You've just summed up my entire academic career thus far there.

But on topic, why is this bad? (Not that i'm defending it), I'm more failing to see why this is a danger to Western society and us personally? What's the point really?

Agent Provoceteur (not the posh undies), say something criminal/extreme, get people to agree, and viola you can swoop on the 'dangerous extremists' ancient and proven way to destroy opposition and protest.

[Greymane]

But on topic, why is this bad? (Not that i'm defending it), I'm more failing to see why this is a danger to Western society and us personally? What's the point really?

Well, if I understand this article correctly, the NSA can very simply destroy anyones reputation, or plant 'evidence' on suspects, by manipulating the internet (fake accouns, false accouns, virus attacks, you name it. Used in the way Justica suggested and others, like posting fake stuff under your name).
Basically it can be (if this stuff is factual, something I myself don't doubt as I don't trust the NSA in the least) the nail at the coffin of democracy and the justice system.
That's what I got from the text anyway. I have to agree (this once ) with Phier as this spreadsheet, or whatever it is, doesn't even remotely make sense.
But read the main article It offers way more explanation than the sheet in the OP and the individual images are explained (haven't read much further than the first yet, to be honest).

Anyway, despite the possible dangers attached to this, my objection to this is another one:
What business does the NSA have manipulating stuff on the internet? How is this necessary or justified except to gain power?

One more thing of note. The comments on the article. Holy...
Some make sense, but most of it is just extremism, paranoia and conspiracy theories.
And I thought I was paranoid about the NSA...

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Agent Provoceteur (not the posh undies), say something criminal/extreme, get people to agree, and viola you can swoop on the 'dangerous extremists' ancient and proven way to destroy opposition and protest.

Well, if I understand this article correctly, the NSA can very simply destroy anyones reputation, or plant 'evidence' on suspects, by manipulating the internet (fake accouns, false accouns, virus attacks, you name it. Used in the way Justica suggested and others, like posting fake stuff under your name).
Basically it can be (if this stuff is factual, something I myself don't doubt as I don't trust the NSA in the least) the nail at the coffin of democracy and the justice system.
That's what I got from the text anyway. I have to agree (this once ) with Phier as this spreadsheet, or whatever it is, doesn't even remotely make sense.
But read the main article It offers way more explanation than the sheet in the OP and the individual images are explained (haven't read much further than the first yet, to be honest).

Anyway, despite the possible dangers attached to this, my objection to this is another one:
What business does the NSA have manipulating stuff on the internet? How is this necessary or justified except to gain power?

One more thing of note. The comments on the article. Holy...
Some make sense, but most of it is just extremism, paranoia and conspiracy theories.
And I thought I was paranoid about the NSA...

Ahh ok i see, thanks guys. I was very slow in trying to decipher that chart! It was all rather Greek to me i'll admit. In that case i can understand the disconcertion if of course this is proven true. I

[Love Mountain]

The comments are honestly the worst part of this article. You should see NSA topics on OCN. Its goddamn awful. They do have a point though. Surveillance has gone too far.

[mrmouth]

Where's the thread on the Brits spying on people through their webcams, via Yahoo? Did that thread not get made?

Wonder why...