African migrants storm border of Spanish Melilla

[hellheaven1987]

At least 300 African migrants have stormed a border fence in an attempt to cross into the Spanish territory of Melilla from Morocco, officials say.

Morocco security forces clashed with the migrants, leaving 27 people wounded, they added.

Ninety-six migrants were arrested, while about 100 managed to cross over, the officials said.

Melilla is a major crossing point for sub-Saharan Africans seeking work or asylum in Europe.

Together with a second Spanish enclave, Ceuta, it is the European Union's only land border with Africa.

Many of those making the dangerous journey come from Eritrea and Somalia.

Source

So when there is no place for maneuver movement such as this case, the only choice is a frontal assault. I wonder if Brussels and lowland countries love immigrants and refugees so much, why not set up an immigrant center there and get all the migrants they love?

[LaMuerte]

Good old Roman times coming back. Any sign of an Atilla yet?

[BadHistoryGood]

Allow time to establish temporary holdings then move them on to migrate around North Africa.

[MathiasOfAthens]

Holland does not love illegal immigrants that are just a drain on society.

[Sir Winston Churchill]

"Hi, I notice that you have a much better quality of life than I do and that you life in relative security with an established, effective government that attempts to protect its people to the best of their abilities. I come from a land rife with war, famine, and sickness and there is little chance of me and/or my family improving our lives. Do you mind if we move in with you?"

"No, you're a disgusting dreg and will only make my life worse. You're also incredibly different than I am in many ways. That sort of scares me. Go back to Somalia and die."

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

"Hi, I notice that you have a much better quality of life than I do and that you life in relative security with an established, effective government that attempts to protect its people to the best of their abilities. I come from a land rife with war, famine, and sickness and there is little chance of me and/or my family improving our lives. Do you mind if we move in with you?"

"No, you're a disgusting dreg and will only make my life worse. You're also incredibly different than I am in many ways. That sort of scares me. Go back to Somalia and die."

Ever thought why most countries in Africa are doing so poorly? Their culture does not promote education, science, or anything that can benefit their own society. Don't try to pull out the old "It's Whitey's fault!" argument, there are plenty of countries in Africa that are doing well, but there are also many that promote slave trading and wars.

I doubt Europeans would want that sort of influence to get a foothold, it would deteriorate any country.

[Ak1980]

Ever thought why most countries in Africa are doing so poorly? Their culture does not promote education, science, or anything that can benefit their own society. Don't try to pull out the old "It's Whitey's fault!" argument, there are plenty of countries in Africa that are doing well, but there are also many that promote slave trading and wars.

I doubt Europeans would want that sort of influence to get a foothold, it would deteriorate any country.

You broke it, you buy it. Next time try don't broke so many country at once when you are the top dog.

[Poach]

You broke it, you buy it. Next time try don't broke so many country at once when you are the top dog.

I see you support the re-establishment of the European empires in Africa. After all, we did 'buy' it, right? I look forward to African affairs being run from London and Paris. Might end up doing a better job!

[knight of meh]

I see you support the re-establishment of the European empires in Africa. After all, we did 'buy' it, right? I look forward to African affairs being run from London and Paris. Might end up doing a better job!

oh no no no that upset Germany terribly last time >.<

[dogukan]

Ever thought why most countries in Africa are doing so poorly? Their culture does not promote education, science, or anything that can benefit their own society. Don't try to pull out the old "It's Whitey's fault!" argument, there are plenty of countries in Africa that are doing well, but there are also many that promote slave trading and wars.

I doubt Europeans would want that sort of influence to get a foothold, it would deteriorate any country.

Oh lord god jesus
Their "culture" does not promote education....because culture is a set in stone.
That was quiet an ignorant post. I am sure you know how "African" -culture- works.

[athanaric]

"Hi, I notice that you have a much better quality of life than I do and that you life in relative security with an established, effective government that attempts to protect its people to the best of their abilities. I come from a land rife with war, famine, and sickness and there is little chance of me and/or my family improving our lives. Do you mind if we move in with you?"

"No, you're a disgusting dreg and will only make my life worse. You're also incredibly different than I am in many ways. That sort of scares me. Go back to Somalia and die."

Well then, go and invite them over to your own home (and I literally mean your property), or else drop that ignorant, hypcritical holier-than-thou attitude. Europe already has 500 million inhabitants, and tens of millions of those are immigrants.

[King_Porus]

Well then, go and invite them over to your own home (and I literally mean your property), or else drop that ignorant, hypcritical holier-than-thou attitude. Europe already has 500 million inhabitants, and tens of millions of those are immigrants.

North America has a population of 528,720,588. All of us are immigrants save the indigenous peoples that remain, although I can only assume they don't make up a large percentage of the total population. And as for inviting them into "our own home" (as if the Africans will be living inside the homes of Spaniards?) many Canadians and possibly Americans host immigrant families or sponsor them until they are on their feet and can become productive members of society. My grandparents on one side of the family came here in the 70s, got on their feet and then proceeded to sponsor other immigrants to assure a steady start in the New World. How is it that North America can be so successful if we're just a bunch of smelly immigrants?

[hellheaven1987]

How is it that North America can be so successful if we're just a bunch of smelly immigrants?

No wonder Mexico is such a successful state.

[Lord Thesaurian]

Wow. Xenophobes of the world, unite! To leap into the abyss, or not........

No wonder Mexico is such a successful state.

Which has to do with immigration....how?

Your telling me i should treat the man who crosses the border into my country illegally and takes advantage of living in my country without paying taxes or generally helping the country in any way the same as the person who worked his ass off to get into my country legally and who actually pays taxes back and pays back into the system he is working for?

=

Hmmm.... interesting. Who are these freeloading non-working immigrants who are apparently using fake IDs to obtain public benefits they'd otherwise be ineligible for? I'd like to see the stats; something besides a few million spent on child birth (the horror) and 30 billion that's only an "additional cost" if you suppose these children are some how unworthy of receiving an education like every other American child, no matter how or when they got here. Perhaps you'd be better off addressing the 50 billion in annual Medicare fraud and 35 billion in annual Medicaid fraud. But no. Let's worry about them dern furners usin r dokters n stielin r baiby burthin beds! Slight problem there too, as immigration from Mexico is at its lowest point in 40 years - near 0. Happy hunting!

If Spain is going to continue to occupy land in Africa then it should expect such things as a natural consequence.

Well, I'd agree that it's harder to cross a stretch of the Mediterranean than a fence......

Do i need to go on about the economic impact of illegal immigration into the US? Economic impact is only one factor. Illegal immigrants coming from Mexico also help make the already bad drug problem on the border worse.

Yes.....yes you do.

But let's cut the politics and Fox News ticker tape and look at the facts, shall we? Let's start with the basics

Does the introduction of immigrants to an area correlate with increased crime?

No. The overwhelming body of statistical evidence often finds that immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than citizens and are often underrepresented in criminal statistics; even relative to their respective percentages as a percent of the total population. Moreover, evidence also suggests that the influx of new immigrants is correlated with actually surpressing crime rates, even and especially in metropolitan areas. There are numerous theories as to why this is. Based on my personal experience of a life lived amongst "illegals," I always thought it was because immigrants will typically avoid getting in trouble with the law if at all possible, as doing so would put them at risk of discovery and deportation. Even driving "5 over" and the sorts of things Americans do every day to "push the boundaries" are often out of the question for people trying to hide in plain sight.

https://www.ncjrs.gov/criminal_justi.../vol_1/02j.pdf
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science...49089X05000104
http://www.jstor.org/stable/3097078

Does immigration cause non-skilled native wages to fall?

No. In fact, some studies suggest that high influx of immigrant labor is actually correlated with higher aggregate native wages. Older, more conservative methods, however, show there is little or no correlation at all between immigrant inflows and the behavior of native wages.

http://www.jstor.org/stable/2006872
http://e-archivo.uc3m.es/bitstream/h...pdf?sequence=2

Does the influx of immigrants cause native employment to fall?

No. This is even true for countries that have seen record immigration levels in recent years, like Austria and Spain.

http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc...=rep1&type=pdf
http://e-archivo.uc3m.es/bitstream/h...pdf?sequence=2

Do immigrants pay taxes?

Well, in the US, they certainly do. The illegal ones even pay income taxes according to the IRS, which estimates some 6 million illegal immigrants file income taxes every year. Illegal immigrants in the US pay 7 billion into Social Security annually, and about 1.5 billion into Medicare. Since illegal immigrants are ineligible for these services, their input is basically a surplus enjoyed by citizens.

Is immigration bad for the economy?

On the contrary. In the US, illegal immigrants alone account for $150 billion in annual consumer demand stimulus, and 8 million "native" jobs in the US are dependent upon economic activity traced to illegal immigrants. In general, immigrants provide a wealth of human capital, labor, information, and production and are a basic, solid source of economic growth in any country.

So, as per usual, one can see that conceptual opposition to increased immigration is nothing but xenophobia and/or ignorance of the facts. An immigrant moving to a new country is just another human being trying to improve his/her livelihood and that of his/her family. Just because somebody draws a line in the dirt and says "you can't come here" doesn't make the immigrant somehow "evil." In fact, as I've demonstrated, placing restrictions on immigration inflicts costs on both the potential immigrants and on the country that turned them away. One would think a glance at American history is sufficient evidence for that, but if not, see above. Restricting flows of immigration is like restricting capital flows in and out of the country, as the kings of Europe obsessed over for centuries, and as many modern nations do today it seems. It's simply not economically sound.

Plus, there's the aesthetic side of it too. I don't know about the rest of you, but were it not for immigrants from Mexico, my life would have been pretty boring growing up. Great people, great food, great music, beautiful language, beautiful women. Are you really going to turn them away for fear of the unknown?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

I didn't think so

[Col. Tartleton]

North America has a population of 528,720,588. All of us are immigrants save the indigenous peoples that remain, although I can only assume they don't make up a large percentage of the total population. And as for inviting them into "our own home" (as if the Africans will be living inside the homes of Spaniards?) many Canadians and possibly Americans host immigrant families or sponsor them until they are on their feet and can become productive members of society. My grandparents on one side of the family came here in the 70s, got on their feet and then proceeded to sponsor other immigrants to assure a steady start in the New World. How is it that North America can be so successful if we're just a bunch of smelly immigrants?

Horse , I was born here, both my parents were born here, all my grandparents were born here, all my great grandparents were born here. Some of my great great great grandparents were born here, etc. Back to the goddamn colonization when we wore hats and shoes with buckles.

Most of the people in North America are Native American. Just because you're from Pakistan doesn't mean I am.

If your family lives in a country for over a century I don't think still calling you an immigrant is very politically correct. I mean I don't expect Chinese Americans to have a Chinese accent or be able to speak Chinese since their ancestors probably came over before a lot of the whites.

[King_Porus]

Horse , I was born here, both my parents were born here, all my grandparents were born here, all my great grandparents were born here. Some of my great great great grandparents were born here, etc. Back to the goddamn colonization when we wore hats and shoes with buckles.

Most of the people in North America are Native American. Just because you're from Pakistan doesn't mean I am.

If your family lives in a country for over a century I don't think still calling you an immigrant is very politically correct. I mean I don't expect Chinese Americans to have a Chinese accent or be able to speak Chinese since their ancestors probably came over before a lot of the whites.

1. So what? Assuming you can trace your family all the way back to the ing Mayflower (which I highly doubt) they're still immigrants. Why? They IMMIGRATED here. The vast majority of people who live in North America came here within the past 100-200 years. That is incredibly short when compared to old world countries.

2. I don't think you know what a Native American is. You know, Indians (the feather, not the dot)... There's only an estimated 5 million in the US, which definitely isn't even close to "most".

3. I don't care if it's politically correct, none of us are native to North America except for the minority of Aboriginals that remain. We're more successful than most countries in the world and we've done it while being "culturally bastardized" as the nutters are apparently calling it.

@Timoleon America is a world superpower, no country in Europe is a superpower not to mention Canada is much more prosperous than almost all of Europe (save Scandinavia).

[Timoleon of Korinthos]

North America has a population of 528,720,588. All of us are immigrants save the indigenous peoples that remain, although I can only assume they don't make up a large percentage of the total population. And as for inviting them into "our own home" (as if the Africans will be living inside the homes of Spaniards?) many Canadians and possibly Americans host immigrant families or sponsor them until they are on their feet and can become productive members of society. My grandparents on one side of the family came here in the 70s, got on their feet and then proceeded to sponsor other immigrants to assure a steady start in the New World. How is it that North America can be so successful if we're just a bunch of smelly immigrants?

1)You are also an amorphous, racially and culturally bastardised mass, which we don't want to become.

2)The most successful countries on earth are European and there many who are as successful as the USA and Canada, having become so without being melting pots, so we see no need to follow your model.

3)The native Americans, whom you ethnically cleansed and whose lands you occupied, would find little comfort in the thought that their conquerors and exterminators would go on to build sucessful countries where once their cultures thrived.

[Greymane]

So when there is no place for maneuver movement such as this case, the only choice is a frontal assault. I wonder if Brussels and lowland countries love immigrants and refugees so much, why not set up an immigrant center there and get all the migrants they love?

I don't know where your notion that the Netherlands love immigrants so much comes from.
I think we might even see slightly eye to eye on the EUs terrible immigration policies concerning people from Eastern Europe
But Brussels has little to do with this. This sounds more like a Spanish border affair (over which the EU will no doubt try to get some control).
This is completely unfair to the Spaniards, because they didn't cause most problems in Africa to begin with. They have to close border, and this gives bad publicity, to say the least, but they have very little choice.
That said, if Europe as a whole would go into Africa and actually improve living standards, instead of just throwing money at corrupt governments and expect good things to happen, the desperate assaults will likely stop, because there will be no need to seek such basic things as food elsewhere.
Ofcourse, Africa has geological problems (heat), so it will never be as good as Europe, but this is becoming worse by the day.

Your telling me i should treat the man who crosses the border into my country illegally and takes advantage of living in my country without paying taxes or generally helping the country in any way the same as the person who worked his ass off to get into my country legally and who actually pays taxes back and pays back into the system he is working for?
=

Yo do realize that for someone without legal status it is impossbile to recieve benefits right?
The corruption part is done by those who got in to your country, met the requirements for an identity card and found out clever ways to abuse the system.
My main beef with the Capitalist ideology is that 'you guys' (sorry for this ) always assume that conditions are equal for everyone. They are not. Dumb luck is factor that should not be underestimated. If you are illegal, you basically have nowhere to go and that makes you an easy target for people looking for cheap labour. Also, minimum salary in a Western country can often be enough to feed your family if they live in a 'third world country' where everything is dirt cheap.

1)You are also an amorphous, racially and culturally bastardised mass, which we don't want to become.

2)The most successful countries on earth are European and there many who are as successful as the USA and Canada, having become so without being melting pots, so we see no need to follow your model.

3)The native Americans, whom you ethnically cleansed and whose lands you occupied, would find little comfort in the thought that their conquerors and exterminators would go on to build sucessful countries where once their cultures thrived.

1) Not going to pass judgement on this But if it is the case, it has more to do with the large group of Catholic Conservatives than with the loads of immigrants.
2) China and even Brazil are on the rise. Meanwhile growth in Europe is stagnating or even decreasing. 'Murica is still one of the top economies and military powers, whether we like that or not.
Also, you seem to foget that Europe is a melting pot of different cultures and has been through out history.
3) Nothing to add here, except that you might look a bit further South for thriving American cultures. And the Spaniards did not even have the decency to leave those parts of the Americas economically stable when they wrecked the Aztec and Inca civilization

[athanaric]

How is it that North America can be so successful if we're just a bunch of smelly immigrants?

1) Maybe because you murdered most of the indigenous population, which had the benefit of opening up new Lebensraum?
2) Europe is about half the size of North America.
3)ho said Europe and immigrants in Europe weren't successful?
4) Also, who said anything about "smelly"? It's irrelevant if those immigrants have poor hygiene or not, fact is they are too many.

Do you know where Spanish Melila is?

Do you know which country Melilla, Ceuta, and the Islas Canarias belong to, regardless of continent? Hint: it's a European country with European-looking inhabitants who have a European culture. Their ancestors have lived there for tens of thousands of years.

And while we're at it, do you know which non-Iberian country has a colony on the Iberian Peninsula?

[King_Porus]

1) Maybe because you murdered most of the indigenous population, which had the benefit of opening up new Lebensraum?
2) Europe is about half the size of North America.
3)ho said Europe and immigrants in Europe weren't successful?
4) Also, who said anything about "smelly"? It's irrelevant if those immigrants have poor hygiene or not, fact is they are too many.

1. The "ethnic cleansing" of the Aboriginal people by European explorers and colonisers, while sad, is completely irrelevant. My point is that Canada, the US, and some other countries to a lesser extent are countries made up of people from all over the world. Most of us don't share the same background, some don't speak the same first language, we have different religions and so on. We are constantly accepting new immigrants who will assimilate to a certain point (but not entirely) and help push our countries forward.

2. And? African and Asian nations tend to have higher population densities than many European states.

3. Several people have said that immigrants are a burden, not an asset. People in this thread are saying that immigrants should not be accepted because they just ruin everything. I'm saying that Canada, America, and others are constantly accepting more immigrants, who have been a key to our success. As I have said, Canada and America are ahead of the *majority* of European nations in terms of quality of life and we have done so while being "immigrant nations".

4. People in this thread are playing immigrants up to be evil creatures who drain our society, when it is quite the opposite. Immigration is beneficial in most cases, although it obviously needs to be restricted in some ways. Anti-immigrant notions are just thinly veiled xenophobia, as has been demonstrated by people in this thread saying that they dislike immigrants because they "bastardize" the native culture (a rather stupid idea thought up by people who don't really understand what a "culture" is and the fact that they are not fixed points that do not budge).