Discussion on infringment of rights of Christians in Turkey

[Dracula]

Split from here. Garb.

Does someone practicing Islam infringe on your rights or the rights of others? No? Then you have no right to ban them practicing it .

Oh they do. Pretty much every christian in the islamic countries is infringed. If they have survived at all. Christian women of their (islamic) countries are occassionally stripped on the streets to mock. There are videos of that in internet. And not only this. It's a religion of terror and cheatery. I myself have rights and properties in Asia Minor, and not only there. Were refused because I am a christian. Even mounted two blokes on the bus I was travelling with to provoke, beat and mock me, allthough they were unsuccessfull. Last - the muslims I saved from the most wretched fate, and it's an entire country - don't give two pence even though they begged me for it; after I helped them just mock me, as the people they are, did not repay with anything good. In my oppinion banning of islam is being positive to the human kind. And even saving of the muslims from it, as far as they are humans.

[PointOfViewGun]

Oh they do. Pretty much every christian in the islamic countries is infringed. If they have survived at all. Christian women of their (islamic) countries are occassionally stripped on the streets to mock. There are videos of that in internet. And not only this. It's a religion of terror and cheatery. I myself have rights and properties in Asia Minor, and not only there. Were refused because I am a christian. Even mounted two blokes on the bus I was travelling with to provoke, beat and mock me, allthough they were unsuccessfull. Last - the muslims I saved from the most wretched fate, and it's an entire country - don't give two pence even though they begged me for it; after I helped them just mock me, as the people they are, did not repay with anything good. In my oppinion banning of islam is being positive to the human kind. And even saving of the muslims from it, as far as they are humans.

What is this? Propaganda?

[Dracula]

Realism.

[PointOfViewGun]

Realism.

Looks like BS to me but let's make some sense out of it. What rights of my Christians friends in Istanbul are infringed upon? What rights and property do you have in Asia Minor, a.k.a. Anatolia?

[Dromikaites]

Looks like BS to me but let's make some sense out of it. What rights of my Christians friends in Istanbul are infringed upon? What rights and property do you have in Asia Minor, a.k.a. Anatolia?

The right to attend the Orthodox mess in the Saint Sophia cathedral, among other things. Turn a mosque into a church today in one place and you're guaranteed a Muslim riot somewhere half around the globe.

[PointOfViewGun]

The right to attend the Orthodox mess in the Saint Sophia cathedral, among other things. Turn a mosque into a church today in one place and you're guaranteed a Muslim riot somewhere half around the globe.

You mean the Haghia Sophia museum? Well, it's a museum. Attending a mass there is not a right. Also, mass, not mess... When the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Van was restored and open for mass and baptism since 2010 who exactly rioted around the world?

[Dromikaites]

You mean the Haghia Sophia museum? Well, it's a museum. Attending a mass there is not a right. Also, mass, not mess... When the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Van was restored and open for mass and baptism since 2010 who exactly rioted around the world?

The Cathedral of the Holly Cross in Van went into ruin as a cathedral and was restored as a cathedral.

Saint Sophia was turned into a mosque and then Ataturk, being a competent politician (and having the power to do so, since his popularity among the Turks allowed him to do many things) decided to close it as a mosque and to transform it into a museum.

The purpose was to extend an olive branch to the Greeks in particular and to score [well deserved] PR points with the rest of the Major Powers (who happened to be Christian).

What is worth mentioning though is his decision to close it as a mosque caused a riot in Istanbul, as it was rumored that bells would be installed and it would be reopened as a cathedral. The riot was short lived, but it happened.

Nowadays Istanbul is much more open-minded than 1920s Istanbul. Women wear short skirts, people kiss on the streets, etc. Won't it be time for another step on the path of reconciliation with the past by putting bells in those minarets and opening it for service?

The Muslims would have the places of worship they had built form scratch, the Christians would have their cathedrals back and everybody would be happy, except for the extremists. But bringing the extremists to the surface so they can be rounded up and put in jails, where they belong, is a good way to clean the society.

[kalpenkd]

You mean the Haghia Sophia museum? Well, it's a museum. Attending a mass there is not a right. Also, mass, not mess... When the Cathedral of the Holy Cross in Van was restored and open for mass and baptism since 2010 who exactly rioted around the world?

constantinopole is a part of greece. you freak turkish muslim harams must back turkish thrace, agean islands and northern cyprus to greece.

[PointOfViewGun]

Don't forget the dinosaurs. What those Republican Atheist Mutant Racist Alien Turks did to those peaceful creatures was just despicable. Lest we forget the billions of non-Turkish speakers in Turkey that perished in the face of Muslim ray gun. True story...

[Armenum]

Why is the religious rights of Christians in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and so forth, not discussed?

[Dracula]

Why is the religious rights of Christians in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and so forth, not discussed?

Because, everybody knows they have none. There is none to discuss.

[Armenum]

Because, everybody knows they have none. There is none to discuss.

and yet, I will still defend the right of Muslims to practice their religion freely in the West.

[Dracula]

and yet, I will still defend the right of Muslims to practice their religion freely in the West.

For what ? To take over ?

[Armenum]

For what ? To take over ?

Because, if we defend freedom of expression and democratic civil liberties, then we also must defend the freedom of expression by Muslims, given they don't break any laws. I'm not saying I agree with some of the values that Muslims hold or the Islamic ideology, but I believe in consistency.

[Holger Danske]

Why is the religious rights of Christians in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and so forth, not discussed?

Because racism/discrimination/nazism/etc only applies when the Muslims are the "victim".

[alhoon]

Why is the religious rights of Christians in Arab countries such as Saudi Arabia, Qatar, and so forth, not discussed?

Because they're allies with the West and multinationals make tons of money from them.
Money > Christian rights.

[Armenum]

Turks don't have to renounce the Ottoman Empire, but they can renounce Abdul Hamid, Talaat Pasha, and Enver Effendi. And the inept Young Turk Government that was headed by the Pashas.

[Condottiere 40K]

Sometimes you have to look at historical events as being psychologically traumatic though for any number of reasons, the effects might lay dormant and only reverberate much later.

To the Catholic West, the conquest by the Turks of Constantinople is both the elimination of a quasi-heretical competitor, and the arrival at their doorstep of another round of volkerwanderung, so that ambiguity and their own self-centred interests shapes their rather lacklustre reaction.

Hindsight indicates differences should have been set aside and another Crusade should have been called for to secure the borders of Byzantine deep in Armenia and contain the spread of Islam from reaching the Bosporus. It would have resolved a lot of later problems. It's obvious to us today that the Turks were about to peak in a century, and the threat would have faded away two centuries later.

[Dracula]

It's obvious to us today that the Turks were about to peak in a century, and the threat would have faded away two centuries later.

I don't think they ever had a peak. Walking through all countries around, one is stunned how the christians look ten times stronger. And even though there are muslims of christian descent, it still doesn't make them look as good as us. Just comparing the people one meets on the streets it becomes clear why the christians lost once. They lost to weaker people, because ... of idiotism. Actually negativism, inherited by judaism and cemented in the Orthodox version of christianity. Entire Turkey can be conquered in no time even just by one dumb province if they were ever thinking in consent with one another and positive of something.

[Treize]

Armenum, let's be honest. The Ottoman Christians did very well during the late Ottoman period before the CUP came to power.

I know the Armenians and Greeks were unhappy because of their lower status but Abdulhamid was not an evil man bent on creating a Turkish national state through ethnic cleansing and forced assimilation like the post-2012 CUP government and the Turkish national movement (headed by Mustafa Kemal Pasha).