Concerning Two Handed Weapons

**Darios** · February 22, 2014, 02:24 AM

Hi yall, has anyone ever felt bored playing with the Celtic and Germanic factions in in R2 because every infantry unit is more or less the same (with different stats of course)? I know that there are some hidden barbarian units that have not been released yet but from what I can see they seem to be more or less the same as other current units. I feel that almost every barbarian unit is running around with a sword and a shield and it ruins the immersion for me. Their rosters could really use some weapon diversification - ex: where is the two handed infantry? I understand that the axe was not nearly as prevalent in ancient Germanic society as pop culture suggests, but surely it should be represented in one form or another.

Imagine the great fear the Iceni would have if they had a unit bearing two handed Celtic great swords that could slice an enemy in two. Wasn't large war hammers also in use among Gallic and Briton populations?

I know for a fact that it IS possible to implement two handed weapons into R2 as the Dacians and Thracians have falx-bearing units. I wonder if CA is thinking of preparing some type of DLC regarding this down the line.

**crawe1** · February 22, 2014, 07:09 AM

Yeah, I seem to remember EB having Celtic/Briton greatswords and war hammers, though I'm not sure how realistic these weapons were. Certainly in the west, I think two-handed swords were far more of a medieval development. That said, I think there is some historical reference somewhere to Alexander coming across Indian warriors in the east who wielded two-handed blades. Unfortunately, there are no Indians in this game.

I'd like to see the German tribes with a couple of axe units, one of which could be a two-handed version - the axe head doesn't need to be any larger than a normal axe head, but with a longer grip, allowing it to be wielded with great force.

I doubt there will be any DLC focusing on this - CA prefers to spend time on things like BoW.

**baldrick13** · February 22, 2014, 07:14 AM

well everyone remembers the berserkers from rome 1 and their amazing hurricane spin of death...

**Ultra123** · February 22, 2014, 07:20 AM

Originally Posted by baldrick13

well everyone remembers the berserkers from rome 1 and their amazing hurricane spin of death...

And my god they were SO fun to use!

**krisslanza** · February 22, 2014, 08:16 AM

I don't think they would've used two-handed weapons with too much regularity. After all, lacking a shield means you're kind of a sitting duck for any ranged projectile at all. They could introduce a few elite units, or I guess 'specialized' units that use two-handed weapons.

But I think the regular use of two-handed weapons was much more of a medieval thing, as by that point, armor could actually protect you from most threats... unless said threat happened to be a really big weapon, or on a horse or such. In this era though, the armor is hardly that good comparatively speaking.

**Nicolaos** · February 22, 2014, 08:41 AM

I think there should be some units that are randomly composed by different types of troops.
axes, swords, shields, no shields...

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · February 22, 2014, 08:50 AM

I know it is not historically accurate, but I agree with you, some zwei-handers would really add some dynamic to the infantry combat!

**Darios** · February 22, 2014, 09:06 AM

R2 isn't exactly the most historically accurate game. The simple fact that the classical hoplite is still present in a game starting in 270 B.C. is testament to that. By then, the Greek infantry had already evolved into Theurophoroi. The Iceni tribe also had not been attested that early in history. On top of that, there are cities around the Caspian Sea that were not attested until the Middle Ages (Sarai?!) I believe that giving the barbarians some units with great swords, axes, and war hammers would go a long way towards spicing them up. Something very late game, elite, and sorta "what if?"

**|Sith|Galvanized Iron** · February 22, 2014, 09:23 AM

I am all for it, it is for sure 1 million times more accurate than bee hive onagers regardless...

**Kraut and Tea** · February 22, 2014, 10:20 AM

I would have liked to see a two handed wooden club. And I think CA should have given different animations to units that use axes rather than them having the same animations as the sword units.

Also there should have been more variety in the swords.

I saw in museums that the Germans prefered a kinf of "hacking sword" a big blade that was only sharp on one side and didn`t have an end with which one could stab anyone.

Instead this swords was mainly used for hacking the enemy.

**Ritter-Floh** · February 22, 2014, 10:26 AM

on this picture you can see the longer blades and hilts. The theory is that (for the longswords) the champion fielding them (and it would take someone very close to the hi-king as those longswords would cost the equivalent of a small car to purchase) would use them single handed. Now I understand that the hilt may be small, but the wooden part of it is missing. As such, I cannot dismiss out of hand the possibility of a double hander champion. If anything, when dueling with longswords (as champions of Celtic Kings used to-hence their title) you would need to hold the sword with both hands. It would be too heavy to continuously use it with one.

**DaciaJC** · February 22, 2014, 10:49 AM

I remember EB had a two-handed sword unit for some of the Eleutheroi tribes; I think they were part of the Lugii, maybe the Boii. They were terrifying.

**Orkfaeller** · February 22, 2014, 10:53 AM

As someone who doesnt own RII yet, that screenshot confuses me;

so are there two-hander units in the game or not :l ?

Edit: So I guess, some of the eastern factions get two handed weapons, is this correct?

**Ritter-Floh** · February 22, 2014, 10:55 AM

Originally Posted by Orkfaeller

As someone who doesnt own RII yet, that screenshot confuses me;

so are there two-hander units in the game or not :l ?

not in vanilla, this unit is example from Divide et Impera

**DeliCiousTZM** · February 22, 2014, 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by Orkfaeller

As someone who doesnt own RII yet, that screenshot confuses me;

so are there two-hander units in the game or not :l ?

Yes but you can't use them because they are Thracian, they also move a little awkward.

**HippieGunner34** · February 23, 2014, 01:31 AM

Originally Posted by DeliCiousTZM

Yes but you can't use them because they are Thracian, they also move a little awkward.

Not true...there are several ways to use them. The one I chose is to make Odrysian Kingdom my client state. You can than walk over to that region and hire troops from them. You now can get Thracian peltasts, Thracian cavalry, and Thracian warriors. Another way is to hire them as mercenaries, or even make an auxiliary barracks anywhere in Thrace if you are playing as Rome. Here is a link for a pic I took of my Thracian auxiliary as Macedon... http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...47AAED174C016/

**EdwardReynolds** · February 23, 2014, 02:30 AM

Originally Posted by HippieGunner34

Not true...there are several ways to use them. The one I chose is to make Odrysian Kingdom my client state. You can than walk over to that region and hire troops from them. You now can get Thracian peltasts, Thracian cavalry, and Thracian warriors. Another way is to hire them as mercenaries, or even make an auxiliary barracks anywhere in Thrace if you are playing as Rome. Here is a link for a pic I took of my Thracian auxiliary as Macedon... http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/...47AAED174C016/

We have to temper that with the reality of access:
1) you need to client/satrap the faction which you are not guaranteed to be able to do,
2) they need to have the correct buildings built for the desired unit to appear,
3) you get 1 random unit from the available list per region in the province, which in real effect will almost certainly mean you will really only ever have 1 random unit per turn from that faction as getting multiple town subservient factions is extremely rare and difficult. Its worse for reliablility then the merc system, which is its own terribly unreliable mess.

The levy recruitment system is a complete lottery - you will practically not ever make a return and nearly always suffer a relatively huge cost for your troubles.

**HippieGunner34** · February 23, 2014, 04:21 AM

Originally Posted by EdwardReynolds

The levy recruitment system is a complete lottery - you will practically not ever make a return and nearly always suffer a relatively huge cost for your troubles.

You make sound arguments sir. However, as you can see by my pic, I have had the patience; and gotten the Thracian warriors that I desire. The cost is negligible, at 75 upkeep per turn. I would venture mercs would cost 3 to 4 times that much. Therefore I do not see the "relatively huge cost."

**=Vastator=** · February 23, 2014, 04:33 AM

Originally Posted by DeliCiousTZM

Yes but you can't use them because they are Thracian, they also move a little awkward.

That "moving a little awkard" is called dancing:

**Darios** · February 22, 2014, 10:57 AM

I imagine that only the wealthiest of Britons would be able to afford such a weapon, but it is clear that it existed. Imagine how much fun the Iceni would be if they could recruit 1-2 small units of champions that while being at the mercy of missile troops, could cut through a Roman legion like butter)