Let´s share our organization of armies

[peregrino]

Hi, i have a idea , share our structure of armies or legions and we can try in SP or MP battle.

In Rome 170 B.C. I have in a typical legion (none of last DLC for now) :

-HQ cav
-2 Heavy Cav
-2 Mid Cav
-3 War Dogs
-1 Scorpio
-2 Middle Ballista
-Legionaries

My idea of battle is quite simple, the arty bombs the enemy archers or cav. Meanwhile archers and cavs destroys the enemy light infantry or archers or rest of cav.
All infantry but two elite cohorts of reserve attacks always and well, the cav and rest of units destroys enemy army . The dogs are superb against infantry!!
Of course i have two elite cohorts for emergency near the general, like Napoleon´s old guard

and you?

[✠Ikaroqx✠]

My Hellenic armies usually consist of
4 Cavalry (C)
3/4 skirmishers (S)
1 General (G)
4 Swordsmen/ mercenary infantry/ more mobile infantry (I)
6 Hoplites (H)

Starting formation
CC IIHHHHHHII CC
SSS
G

The hoplites (and swordsmen if I'm outnumbered) will engage the enemy infantry line. If not, the swordsmen will be temporarily held back until a flanking opportunity is found.

The skirmishers will begin by firing at the enemy, then once the infantry lines clash, I'll move most of them to the enemy's right - where they don't have shields to protect them.

My cavalry are used to defeat my opponent's cavalry - hence why in most of my campaigns I have a strong cavalry section, despite the faction. Then they'll be used to destroy the enemy skirmishers. After that, hammer and anvil.

My General will do his usual - rallying troops, raising morale and when neccessary, getting into the thick of it.

[nonja121]

I play DeI against the AI (normal battle difficulty), so I tend to eschew missile units and artillery in favor of cavalry and more infantry.

I use a straightforward Alexandrian hammer and anvil strategy. My usual Hellenic stack is as follows:

8x pikemen
4x hoplites
3x swordsmen (might swap for light hoplites or more standard hoplites)
4x heavy cavalry/chariots/elephants
1x general, sword bodyguard or chariots/elephants

Main line comprised of pike core + 2x hoplites in line on the wings. 2x hoplites, recessed, one on each wing
Swords/light hoplites and general center behind the lines
Cavalry recessed on the wings.

HPPPPPPPPH
H H
CC SSGS CC

(I'm on Tapatalk, so my apologies if the layout gets messed up.)

Strategy is simple, but it depends on maintaining this formation until the enemy forces commit themselves. This includes attacking.

The main line absorbs the charge of the enemy infantry core and anchors them. Since this is DeI, the line will hold for a good long while. Even so, the pikes ensure that the center will hold while their flanks are guarded by hoplites capable of fighting when flanked.

The recessed hoplites are a strategic reserve that can be used to extend the line, help counter cavalry, support the wing hoplites, or flank.

Once the main core is anchored, I send my cavalry/chariots to deal with enemy cavalry or skirmishers. Meanwhile, my swords either swing out left or right to flank or get on position to relieve main line units under duress.

Once the enemy skirmishers and cavalry are routed, my swords and cavalry hit the enemy line on the flanks.

It's simple, but it works and allows me the flexibility I need to counter different army compositions or deal with city sieges.

[GussieFinkNottle]

As Seleucids I do a main battle line of pikemen, usually 4 units of javelinmen, 2 units of melee infantry (either spears or swords) and up to 6 units of the heaviest cavalry I can get my hands on. On multiplayer I also like to get chariots when I can.
Arranged like this:

................................................Chariots Chariots Chariots
..............................Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes
..................Melee inf.............Javelins Javelins Javelins Javelins............Melee inf.
cav cav cav................................................................................................. cav cav cav

The chariots suicide charge at the start to carve up the enemy infantry, then the pikes advance to meet the main enemy battle line, supported by the javelinmen. The cavalry and mobile infantry on the flanks defend the javelinmen against enemy cavalry, and maintain the integrity of the pike line. Then when the enemy cav are dead the melee infantry move up to attack the corners of the enemy formation and the cavalry ride around the flanks to attack the enemy in the rear.

To put it simply, the Pikes are the anvil, the melee infantry are the tongs, and the cavalry are the hammer.

[Joseph The Great]

................................................Chariots Chariots Chariots
..............................Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes Pikes
..................Melee inf.............Javelins Javelins Javelins Javelins............Melee inf.
cav cav cav................................................................................................. cav cav cav

The chariots suicide charge at the start.

This is a powerful looking set-up. How's it for replenishing your stacks when you loose the chariots each battle? I usually try to make the most solid stacks, so I don't have to stop attacking from loss of a full unit. But, I could see this making quick work of battles.

Haven't played Seleucid yet, but in my Iceni campaign, I couldn't figure out how to use their chariots effectively. Ill wait to start a new campaign once DEI .8 and patch 10 come out.

[GussieFinkNottle]

This is a powerful looking set-up. How's it for replenishing your stacks when you loose the chariots each battle? I usually try to make the most solid stacks, so I don't have to stop attacking from loss of a full unit. But, I could see this making quick work of battles.

Haven't played Seleucid yet, but in my Iceni campaign, I couldn't figure out how to use their chariots effectively. Ill wait to start a new campaign once DEI .8 and patch 10 come out.

The chariots are only in multiplayer. In singleplayer I have the rest of the setup without them. Scythed chariots are expensive, but are essentially a one-unit win against infantry armies. I have known chariot units kill 800 legionaries in one battle.They are very OP indeed.

[nonja121]

The chariots are only in multiplayer. In singleplayer I have the rest of the setup without them. Scythed chariots are expensive, but are essentially a one-unit win against infantry armies. I have known chariot units kill 800 legionaries in one battle.They are very OP indeed.

Agreed, especially on single player DeI. If I can get my hands on them, I usually have at least one (usually a general) as they are great for running down routed infantry. In DeI, melee cavalry is horrible for running down routed units (they'll make sure that a broken unit becomes shattered, but they won't incur too many casualties). Chariots solve that problem nicely. They also can get a great number of kills on siege defense if you can wheel them behind the attacking army pinned by pikes.

Suicide frontal attacks don't usually end too well on DeI (well, aside from the suicide part). They'll get a fair number of kills, but since units die less quickly in DeI, they can quickly get overwhelmed by infantry. Same with elephants and spear infantry.

[red_locust]

As mid-late game Rome, I try to put together the following army. Usually I also build an armorer and training field specific to the type of unit being recruited from the particular province, to make sure they get the best upgrades:

1 Horse-mounted general
2 Auxiliary Persian Cavalry (alt: Socii Equites Extraordinarii or mix in 1 African War Elephant)
2 Socii Equites (alt: Auxiliary Noble Horse)
1 Ballista (for sieges, I'd have more if I were powergaming, but they're a very cheesy unit)
2-3 Auxiliary Peltasts
1-2 Auxiliary Cretan Archers
2 Gladiator Spearmen (alt: leftover Triarii)
1 Gladiators
2 Praetorians
6 Armored Legionaries

The legionaries hold the line, the gladiator spearmen (love these units, dirt cheap and slaughter cavalry) sit behind the lines protecting from enemy cavalry. The gladiators are shock troops to hit the flanks on one side, their killing rate is quite amazing. The peltasts and cavalry wheel around and do their flanking thing. If I have an elephant, I just run it into the enemy lines after the missile units have been engaged or being chased by cavalry. Guaranteed rout in less than a minute, if not immediately. Elephants are really useful for ending the fight quickly with fewer casualties, if held back until you've made sure all threats are busy worrying about something else.

[Swamidude]

My Epirus campaign I now have two full stacks and I'm building a third soon, this is in those armies:

1 general pike unit (center frontline in phalanx)
4 pike units (they form the front line)
2 hoplites (one on both flanks)
3 veteran legionaries (second line, rome is my clientstate to deliver these, excelent to reinforce gabs or to attack the enemies flanks / stop flanking infantery)
4 med cavalry (2 units on each flank, sometimes all on one flank, depends on the battle. Mostly taking out skirmishers and attacking the rear after that for the final break / stopping flanking moves)
4 agrarian axemen (better then peltast imo and excelent as missile support)
1 ballista (taking out cavalry infanty before engaged, after that taking out general unit / skirmishers.
1 mercenary elephant unit (used for everything actually were needed, mostly to attack flanks / rear and against melee/spear infantry and heavy cavalry. Very expensive but worth the money, they usually have between the 10 and 15% of the kills in a battle and besides that are most often the reason for a mass chain route, really turning the battle in my favour quickly and the most important unit with this tactic)


I'm thinking of trading in one cavalry unit for one more legionary unit, especially with sieges that's more usefull. But in open field battles my pikemen / hoplite frontline mostly does the job well enough in pinning down the enemy and my elephants and cavalry often allready have superior power on the flanks, so there my legionaries often don't even join the battle... It's diffecult.. I don't have a barrack for training missile units but have build a temple to Ares instead to boost my infantry, so the agrarian axemen are all I have and of course with pike infantry my biggest weakness are slingers / archers, but also javelinmen, so keeping 4 cavalry units seems the better choice atm.

[TeutonicKnight]

I prefer to play fairly defensively no matter what faction I use. Assuming a Greek-ish faction, this is usually ten units of Pikemen, and two units of Hoplitai on each side of the pike wall. If not Greek, then heavy infantry or spears. Supporting this I use four units of missile infantry depending on faction. I will keep two units of cav in the back for counter-cavalry use, and to clean up routers. Finally, I will have my General, and beside him a single ballista unit. Having a ballista insures the enemy will attack in most cases.

While the enemy is approaching, I use my ballista to target any really scary units, and then to weaken their cavalry. If I'm lucky enough to route their cavalry, then I launch the remaining rocks at their missile units. I prefer that their infantry engage - this gives me the maximum chance to kill their melee units completely. I hold the line until the melee units have ground themselves out on the pikes. Then I release the Hoplitai to flank and break them. Then it's just clean up any last resistance, and the cavalry takes out the routers.

This works for me fairly well, though I sometimes have been nearly broken by enemy armies with many missile units. Pikes just don't hold up as well against that, and I tend to overextend the pikes anyway to get a longer frontage. In those cases I have to pull out all the stops and go on the offensive to have any chance of winning.

[nonja121]

Man, so many of us here are defensive Hellenic players. I have to try a Suebi, Arverni, or Parthian campaign when I get my PC fixed and see if I can come up with a more aggressive style.

That being said, most factions are going to use some variation of the hammer and anvil we've all been pointing out. Ancient warfare was dominated by this for a reason.

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Hammer and anvil is the default manouver of Total War games, it so widely used and self-evident that it doesn't even deserve the name tactic.

In SP you can pretty much bring whatever you want and win with a 1:1000 casualty ratio so there is no need to really make a grand build.

MP is another story. There half the battle is decided on what build you decide to bring along (providing the opponent got some online experience of course). What builds to bring in MP depends entirely on what faction you are and what faction you are facing. General key point is of course to always gear up to win the cavalry fight since the player that loses his cavalry becomes an easy prey for missiles.

[GussieFinkNottle]

Hammer and anvil is the default manoeuvre of Total War games, it so widely used and self-evident that it doesn't even deserve the name tactic.

Roll up the line also works as well I find, as does double envelopment (pincer/horns of the bull). And then there's always the noob square:

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Haha n00b-square does not work against a professional opponent however, but I guess you posted that one as a joke

The others you mentioned are all variations of hammer and anvil I would say, in general it is all about attacking from rear or flank after all. I think punching hole through centre of a pikeline by overloading one spot with javelin fire and use infiltration tactics is a more fun way to win battles even if it is harder to pull off.

[Swamidude]

haha noobsquare, I have often use similar variants against the BAI in every total war game, even in empire it worked well XD

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

Sure it is working against an AI, just don't try that online or you might end up frustrated

[Swamidude]

Sure it is working against an AI, just don't try that online or you might end up frustrated

No of course not I haven't really used noob square in Rome II in open field battles, only ones in a siege where I had 3 pike units in front of the gate, with the walls at the back, so like this |_|. I didn't have boiling oil yet and my javelinmen, slingers and towers could hit them much better when I deployed my pikes outside the gate instead of on the inside, with boiling oil I pretty much have the same formation on the other side of the gate, facing toward the center of the square of course XD

[|Sith|Galvanized Iron]

No of course not I haven't really used noob square in Rome II in open field battles, only ones in a siege where I had 3 pike units in front of the gate, with the walls at the back, so like this |_|. I didn't have boiling oil yet and my javelinmen, slingers and towers could hit them much better when I deployed my pikes outside the gate instead of on the inside, with boiling oil I pretty much have the same formation on the other side of the gate, facing toward the center of the square of course XD

Haha pikes pointing inward is not a n00b-box. What you are describing is the classic iron maiden manouver! An iron maiden is a body shaped casket with spikes on the inside.

[DisgruntledGoat]

Online I enjoy the so called "meta army" composition that uses a pike faction and peltasts to dominate the field of battle. Typical composition I choose is:

General - Heavy Melee Infantry unit (royal peltasts are great)
3 Missile cavalry units
5 pike units (lower-mid tier)
5 peltast units (light peltasts are great)
4 shock cavalry units
2 elephants (or 1 elephant and 1 scythed chariot)

Buy using lower tier pike units and light peltasts I can afford to bring the heavier shock cavalry and elephants on mass. The goal of the army is to use the peltast to weather slinger fire and pelt the enemy infantry. I retreat the entire infantry line when the enemy advances. The missile cavalry is used as a harassment to draw enemy cavalry away and hit it with the shock cavalry. With cavalry superiority my missile troops are safe from cav charges and with the high shield values the light peltasts are safe (generally) from missiles and free to wreak havoc on the enemy heavy infantry. If it comes to melee my pikes can hold out long enough for my elephants to flank and destroy them. Its a great army which is why so many people are using them online now. So if you see the Egyptians, Seleucids, Baktria or Macedon you can pretty much expect this type of army (with slight variation).

As for the SP campaign I am playing (and finally LOVING) Epirus. I'm still early in the campaign but my army composition right now consists typically of:

1 Hellenic Royal Cavalry (Generals unit)
4 Pikemen
2 Levy Units
3 slingers
4 Agrarian Axemen
2 Spear units (merc hoplites, my hoplites, merc theuros spears, depending on my cash flow situation)
1 Mercenary Elephant (whichever is available but Merc Indian Elephants are my preference)
2 Shock cavalry (whatever I can get my hands on)
2 Melee cavalry (whatever I can get my hands on, usually mercs as I don't like citizen cav).

Its a pretty standard hammer and anvil set up. I use the slingers to provoke the AI into attacking, use cavalry and missiles to funnel them into my pike line swing out my levies for early flanking or to stop heavy spear units for attempting a flanking maneuver (levy units for Epirus are deadly against hoplites). Once the Axemen are done throwing or if they are needed for flanking I swing them around. Meanwhile my shock cavalry screens against enemy cavalry for the melee cav and elephants as they slam into the rear of the enemy or missile troops.

[irontaino]

My usual Parthian setup goes like:
4 Horse Archers -Ha
4 Heavy Cav -Hc
4 Slingers/javelins or 2 slingers, 2 javelins -S and J
4 Sword units or hillmen - I
2 Spears -Sp
2 Ballista - B

JJ
Ha Ha SpIIIISp Ha Ha
Hc Hc BSSB Hc Hc

Probably not the best but it works for me.