Guardian Poll on Parthenon Marbles: 88% of voters in favor of return

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Apparently the case regained publicity after George Clooney was asked about the matter by a Greek journalist. Clooney answered it would be a good thing if they returned to Athens.

http://www.theguardian.com/commentis...ument-men-poll

What is your opinion on the matter? Personally, I wouldn't engage on arguments such as "they were illegally obtained", or "they belong to the Greek people". I think the most reasonable argument is that those marbles constitute part of the Parthenon, which still stands in Athens. Would you prefer to witness the monument in whole, or incomplete, with parts of it spread in other areas? Returning the marbles wouldn't constitute a threat to the rest of the treasures held by the British Museum, since there's no realistic basis to demand the return of movable pieces of art, such as vases, shields, paintings etc.

[knight of meh]

Returning the marbles wouldn't constitute a threat to the rest of the treasures held by the British Museum, since there's no realistic basis to demand the return of movable pieces of art, such as vases, shields, paintings etc.

no comment on the main point but i disagree here i'm thinking somewhere along the lines "you gave us the marbles back why not this piece too?"

[Manuel I Komnenos]

You cannot claim that, say, Mona Lisa belongs to Italy by right, just because it was painted there. On the other hand, the marbles constitute part of a large iconic structure and were forcedly cut and removed from it. The same cannot be said for, say, a shield found in the Acropolis.

[PointOfViewGun]

You cannot claim that, say, Mona Lisa belongs to Italy by right, just because it was painted there.

Seriously?

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Seriously?

In a way this makes sense actually, for instance a Scottish painter who created/finished a piece of work or something while say in the US that becomes critically acclaimed... well, who has right to it in terms of future historicity? Scotland (/UK) or the US?

[PointOfViewGun]

In a way this makes sense actually, for instance a Scottish painter who created/finished a piece of work or something while say in the US that becomes critically acclaimed... well, who has right to it in terms of future historicity? Scotland (/UK) or the US?

Nobody has the right to any historicity. That's an absurd concept. Moreover, we're not talking about a creator as you are in your example. We're talking about a piece of artifact. Where or by whom it was created shouldn't have much bearing on who can own it.

[Dante Von Hespburg]

Nobody has the right to any historicity. That's an absurd concept. Moreover, we're not talking about a creator as you are in your example. We're talking about a piece of artifact. Where or by whom it was created shouldn't have much bearing on who can own it.

Indeed they don't. It's something i'm forever arguing. But then if i can clarify your position, you seemed shocked that Italy couldn't claim the Mona Lisa on the basis it was painted there? I'm pointing out that potentially Italy Doesn't have the right to claim the Mona Lisa.

[Manuel I Komnenos]

Nobody has the right to any historicity. That's an absurd concept. Moreover, we're not talking about a creator as you are in your example. We're talking about a piece of artifact. Where or by whom it was created shouldn't have much bearing on who can own it.

That's what I just said.

George Clooney? Why should anyone on earth care what George Clooney thinks about Greek antiquities in the UK? There are parts of various ancient monuments in the British museum, including parts of the Mausoleum of Halikarnassos, Persepolis, Nineveh and others. What makes the parthenon so special? If anything it's the least special, since it survives perfectly well for people to see with the loss of the marbles having no real impact.

Not sure if the question is directed at me, but the issue received publicity back in the UK, hence the Guardian's poll. As for whether it has some impact:



The visitor will probably ask where's the 6th figure and why it's not in Athens with the rest.

[alhoon]

Nobody has the right to any historicity. That's an absurd concept. Moreover, we're not talking about a creator as you are in your example. We're talking about a piece of artifact. Where or by whom it was created shouldn't have much bearing on who can own it.

I respectfully disagree. I believe the successor states of important pieces of work should benefit from the tourist boost generated by such art and most importantly, citizens of those successor states should cheaply and easily have access to view the splendid work of their ancestors without having to travel to another country.

[Slydessertfox]

You cannot claim that, say, Mona Lisa belongs to Italy by right, just because it was painted there. On the other hand, the marbles constitute part of a large iconic structure and were forcedly cut and removed from it. The same cannot be said for, say, a shield found in the Acropolis.

My point of view. ^^

[alhoon]

The British Museum is taking good care of it, at least.

Not really.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elgin_...British_Museum
" According to documents released by the British Museum under the Freedom of Information Act, a series of minor accidents, thefts and acts of vandalism by visitors have inflicted further damage to the sculptures."

" The cleaning process scraped away some of the detailed tone of many carvings."

Personally, the marbles I've seen in Athens seemed to me in a better condition than those in the British museum.

[Roma_Victrix]

It would be nice to see them returned and the ruin of the Parthenon restored further to its original state, but I don't really care either way. The British Museum is taking good care of it, at least. Unless London turns into Baghdad (i.e. warfare that soiled many Sumerian and other ancient edifices in Iraq), I don't see a pressing reason to return them. That's my 2 cents. And I agree with Manuel, returning them wouldn't constitute a free-for-all in countries asking others to return all of their various pieces of artwork and artifacts. I don't think the People's Republic of China is going to be gunning for the Freer Sackler Gallery in Washington D.C. anytime soon, either.

[Condottiere 40K]

It's a slippery slope.

[Bobz]

It would be easier not to fuss about ownership, as that won't result in anything being done. Instead the Parthenon marbles should simply be loaned out to Athens, and other locations perhaps, providing they are in the condition to do so. Many historic treasures are shared throughout the world today, which I think is a far better way to experience our heritage than being a permanent fixture in one museum.

[conon394]

I would say as EU countries the UK and Greece need to put on big boy pants and stop the making this a political red meat issue. THe UK should return them under the condition of a lease - quality management which Greece is now able to do (unlike when it was an occupied non state) and reconizing thay they really should be seen near the Parthenon. In return Greece which as lots of antiquities could lease some back to the UK, the same deal could also bring back the smaller bits of the marbles from France and Germany etc.

[Copperknickers II]

George Clooney? Why should anyone on earth care what George Clooney thinks about Greek antiquities in the UK? There are parts of various ancient monuments in the British museum, including parts of the Mausoleum of Halikarnassos, Persepolis, Nineveh and others. What makes the parthenon so special? If anything it's the least special, since it survives perfectly well for people to see with the loss of the marbles having no real impact.

[athanaric]

George Clooney? Why should anyone on earth care what George Clooney thinks about Greek antiquities in the UK?

Well, he looks very Greek.

There are parts of various ancient monuments in the British museum, including parts of the Mausoleum of Halikarnassos, Persepolis, Nineveh and others. What makes the parthenon so special? If anything it's the least special, since it survives perfectly well for people to see with the loss of the marbles having no real impact.

Yeah but those places are kind of iffy, for various reasons. Whereas for the Parthenon, there is a specific museum nearby where all the other parts are exhibited (and they left some free space for the "Elgin marbles" on purpose, just in case).

[Sir Pignans]

I suspect the items would be put into the Acropolis museum, and not be restored onto the Parthenon. So the issue here is which museum has them. Not whether they can restore the statues onto the original Parthenon.

I may be wrong though.

[Condottiere 40K]

Athens, as the mythological source of European democracy, and it's Greek successor state, has received special treatment based more on sentiment than reason, as onyone who can recall their acceptance into the Eurozone, as the rest of the Union closed both eyes as they perused the Greek balance sheets.

[Durnaug]

Keep 'em in the British Museum. The current regime that rules Greece (the so-called Troika) would sell 'em off to the highest bidder. The Greeks don't rule Greece anymore.

Thank goodness that we in Ireland still have our sovereignty...oh wait. Scrap that -- the British Museum better hold onto our Ogham Stone!