Trouble with Islam
Ask the author: 'The Trouble with Islam'
Irshad Manji, a Canadian Muslim, is the author of a provocative new book, entitled 'The Trouble With Islam'. Ms Manji says it's 'a wake-up call for honesty and change' in Islam but the book has caused controversy.
You put your questions to Irshad Manji in an interactive forum.Scroll down to read the transcript.
You can visit Irshad Manji's website at www.muslimrefusenik.com
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Transcript:
Newshost:
Hello and welcome to this BBC News interactive forum, I'm Razia Iqbal. Irshad Manji, a Canadian Muslim, is the author of a provocative new book, entitled 'The Trouble with Islam'.
Ms Manji says her book is 'a wake-up call for honesty and change' in Islam. The book has sparked strong criticism and there are reports that she has even received death threats.
Well Irshad Manji joins me now to answer your questions on the book and the impact it’s already made.
Irsad, what possessed you to write the book?
Irshad Manji:
Many reasons actually – my conscience being one of them but that’s not the only one.
Even before thinking about writing this book, I did a lot of speeches at Canadian and American universities and high schools speaking mostly about diversity. And I realised that after many of these speeches, young Muslims would come up to me and say things like, Irshad, we need voices such as yours to help us reform this religion of ours because if we don’t let some oxygen in, if we don’t let some air in, we are leaving it.
So in many ways, I felt that it was my obligation to young Muslims – including Muslims in the West – to call for honesty and change and at the very least, get a debate going.
Newshost:
Well you’ve certainly done that which is why we’re talking to you today. Let me just give you an idea of the sorts of things we’ve been hearing. Azher Mir, Blenheim, New Zealand asks: What did you hope to achieve with writing a book with such a provocative title?
Irshad Manji:
Can I just say this at this point; I know in your introduction you pointed out that the book has received a lot of criticism, what you didn’t point out is that the book has received a great deal of support, affection and even love from self-identified Muslims around the world.
I must tell you that I’m hearing primarily from young Muslims and from Muslim women who are saying thank you – expressing their gratitude and their relief that somebody is finally going public. And that’s the key, going public, with thoughts that they’ve only ever allowed themselves to keep private.
Newshost:
Phil, London asks: Why is the only response for a call to change and reform within Islam is a threaten to kill those who call for it?
We mentioned earlier that you’ve had death threats. Why does Islam have such a problem with pluralism and freedom of conscience?
Irshad Manji:
And it does have a problem with pluralism at this point. And that wasn’t always the case. I must emphasise that there was a time – and I go into detail in the book about it – when Islam epitomised pluralism.
Newshost:
And dissent was encouraged, wasn’t it?
Irshad Manji:
Well yes. It was the leader of progress and debate and critical thinking. This was during the golden age of Islam, for example, when Jews and Christians and Muslims worked together to preserve the works of Plato and Socrates and so forth.
There was a time when critical thinking was embraced and that tradition was called ijtihad. I know it sounds a lot like jihad to non-Arab ears and in fact it comes from the same root – to struggle. But unlike violent struggle ijtihad is all about independent reasoning and independent thinking.
I explain in the book that towards the end of the 11th century, for very political reasons - which we can go into if you are interested - the gates of ijtihad were deliberately closed; 135 schools of thought were whittled down to only four schools of thought. And today a thousand years later, most Muslims have inherited that legacy of a ban on independent thinking.
And I am asking my fellow Muslims, especially in the West but not only in the West, what is stopping us from rattling at the gates of ijtihad at the very least and if nothing else ripping off the lock and saying, it is time that we rediscovered our tradition of critical thinking.
Newshost:
Have you been surprised at the controversy that the book caused? You talked about the support and ok if we acknowledge that, are you surprised at how much debate it has already caused?
Irshad Manji:
I’m very gratified by it and I guess in that sense, I am surprised by it because the fact is I’ve been writing about religious reform for many, many years – I’m no Johnny-come-lately to the issue. But only since 9/11, sadly and truly, have these issues become publicly relevant. Before 9/11 as I would be writing about these issues, I would easily get about 80% anger, 20% support, if I could just give you some rough proportions. Since the release of the book, I have been surprised at how much support I’ve received – it’s at least 50:50 if not more, towards support than anger.
Newshost:
I must admit we’ve had a huge number of people writing in with regard to this particular book. I’ve done a lot of these forums and the response to this is quite extraordinary.
Emrah, Sønderborg, Denmark asks: How can you call yourself a Muslim and say that Islam needs changing?
Irshad Manji:
Well I’m certainly not saying that Islam needs to change into something that it hasn’t already been. I ask again the listeners to remember that what I am talking about is reviving, not merely discovering but rediscovering Islam’s lost tradition of independent reasoning - ijtihad.
The question, I think, addresses something larger as well and I get this a lot – how can you possibly call yourself a Muslim, if you don’t like what’s happening in the faith, get out.
Well, as know within Islam – leaving Islam is tantamount to apostasy and there are physical risks that go with actually leaving the faith. But I am honest enough at the end of the book to say that if I don’t see an appetite for reform, especially among Muslims in the West – and I now emphasise the West because it is in the West that we already have precious freedoms to think and express and challenge and be challenged all without fear of state reprisal. If I don’t see that kind of appetite then I may have to leave. Not because I think that’s a threat to anybody – in fact Razia, we know more than a few Muslims will be jumping out of their chair and saying, thank God she’s gone.
Newshost:
But you can still continue to practise being a Muslim without formally feeling that you’re part of that community anyway because in lots of respects it is a private faith and the relationship between you and God is key.
Irshad Manji:
Right and not only that but again I explain in the book that my interpretation of the Koran leads me to a wide take on Islam that I think is consistent with the choices I’ve made.
Let me just quickly tell you what that interpretation of the Koran is. For all of the contradictions in our holy book, as there are in every other holy book, there are nonetheless three recurring messages from beginning to middle to end.
The first is, only God knows fully the truth of anything; second God alone can punish disbelief, given that only God knows fully the truth of anything and as a result of those two messages, the third one is that we Muslims have to be open to debate and discussion because we ourselves cannot know fully the truth of anything. That’s why to judge and to say this is the way it must be and anything else makes you non-Muslims, this undermines God’s jurisdiction as a supreme judge and jury.
So that is really why I am quite comfortable with the choices I’ve made while still calling myself a Muslim and I believe being true to the essence of the Koran.
Newshost:
Isa, UK: Irshad does not speak Arabic so how can she claim to reinterpret the Koran.
Irshad Manji:
I don’t claim to reinterpret the Koran. Again Razia, as you yourself have said, Islam is in many ways a very personal and private spirituality between creature and creator and so I am not expecting, never mind asking, anybody to accept my personal interpretation. Rather I am reminding Muslims – and I can’t emphasise this enough – that there was a time when we had a tradition of critical thinking.
I’m asking the person who asked me her question, why is it so unreasonable to suggest that we Muslims ought to rediscover that glorious tradition of independent thought. Remember it is that tradition of independent thought that allowed Arab Muslim civilisation at one time to lead the world in curiosity, creativity and cultural independence. Is that such an Islamic thing to advocate?
Newshost:
Let’s to go the next question. NC, London asks: Why do many Muslims fight the notion of adaptation to a contemporary era that can still remain truthful to the teachings of the Koran, which was written under circumstances valid 600+ years ago?
Irshad Manji:
I think it goes back to some historical reasons for this. And again, many people at this point will be saying, it is all about western colonialism – some of it is but all of it is not.
As I demonstrate, and not just state, in book well before western colonialism took off and even longer before the state of Israel was born, Muslims have been bludgeoning each other’s freedoms and imposing marshal law on one another.
I talked earlier about the closing of the gates of ijtihad, the political reasons for ending this tradition of independent thought – what’s really sad is that at the time that this happened, toward the end of the 11th century, innovation was actually defined as a crime and we Muslims a thousand years later are in fact struggling with that legacy.
So before we begin pointing fingers at everybody else for why Islam has come into the crisis that it has now, let us remember that we have done part of it to ourselves. And that therefore – and this is the message of hope – we have only ourselves to turn to in order to pull ourselves out of this interpretative, human rights and economic rut in which so much of the Muslim world finds itself.
Newshost:
Let me turn to a question from Jason Peire, Seattle, USA: What do you think of the Muslim American thinker Edward Said? Do you agree with him in his assumption that Oriental way of thinking has not done justice to the Muslim culture? And where do you find yourself in the Orientalist theory in general?
Irshad Manji:
Well first of all, let’s deal with the late Edward Said for a second; he was not a Muslim – and that’s fine, this is not me judging him for not being one, rather he was a secular – decidedly and stridently secular Arab nationalist.
He himself had a struggle with Arabs – and he asked this question directly – why don’t more of us fight harder for freedom of expression in our own societies, a freedom, he reminded his fellow Arabs, that scarcely exists. And sadly Edward Said died earlier this year without ever having had, for him, a satisfactory answer to that.
I know that there are plenty of people out there who “accuse” me of being an Orientalist. If people want to abide by strident, ideological labels, well then I can’t do anything about that. But remember that Edward Said’s own work was banned by Yasser Arafat and was published in Hebrew in Israel. Regardless of whether you’re Occidentalist, an Orientalist, a Socialist, a Feminist, whatever – if we can agree that diversity of expression and diversity of thought are important for any society to grow then we can ditch the labels and just get on with debating.
Newshost:
Well let me ask you a question about labels, Adnan Aijaz, Chicago, USA: I support your lifestyle choices and admire you for coming forward and being open about it but I do not know why you have to add the label of "Muslim-lesbian”. Why are labels like this necessary?
You’ve never added that label on though.
Irshad Manji:
Exactly Razia. In fact one of the most frustrating aspects of engaging with people on this level is that journalists in particular – thank you for not being one who did this – love to pigeon-hole and slot and that already allows people to lapse into preconceptions about who you are and what you believe.
Let me tell you what I mean by preconceptions. Believe it or not, even though yes, I am openly gay, I actually don’t ask, urge or expect my fellow Muslims to accept my sexual orientation. Remember only God can do that.
In the meantime those who challenge me to reconcile Islam and homosexuality I think have a very valid challenge. But at the same time, I have a challenge for them. Given that the Koran explicitly states that God created the world to breathtaking multiplicity; given that the Koran states that God created whom he will and that everything that God created is excellent, nothing God has created is in vain. If you believe the Koran enough to believe those statements, then how do my detractors reconcile those statements with their utter condemnation of homosexuality.
Razia, I am not saying that I’m right. I’m merely asking my critics, what makes them so sure they’re right.
Newshost:
Let’s go to the Arab world. John, Dubai, UAE: When writing your book, did you ever feel that you would not publish it after considering what Salman Rushdie had to sacrifice after the Iranians issued the Fatwa against him?
Irshad Manji:
It’s a wonderful question and I’m going to put a little bit of an ironic twist on my answer. It is precisely because of something that Salman Rushdie told me when I had a conversation with him as I was writing the book that made me realise this book is necessary to publish.
I asked him, why should I write a book knowing that it might invite into my life the kind of havoc that has been visited upon yours. And he replied, without any hesitation, because a book is more than a life. And I laughed thinking this guy has just told a joke and now he is going to give me the serious answer.
He said, no, no let me explain: whenever a writer puts out a thought, it can be disagreed with – vehemently, vigorously, even violently – but it cannot be un-thought and that, Mr Rushdie told me, is the great permanent gift that the writer gives to the world. And I kept that sentiment in mind as I was penning the book and realising, of course if this paragraph doesn’t ruffle a few feathers, then the next one will. His answer to me gave me a great deal of strength.
Newshost:
And of course, post the fatwa, he argued exactly in the way that you do – that dissent was something that was perfectly acceptable in Islam and Islamic history.
Tom Gage, New York asks as we speak: Separate from the Koran, what percentage of these problems you see in Islam are due to the traditional tribal or family culture of the Middle East?
And by the way he thinks you’re a very courageous woman.
Irshad Manji:
Thank you very much and I think that he’s a very astute person because I think he’s right in the sense that it is not simply a matter of religion, it is also a matter of culture. While I know many of our listeners today will not be pleased to hear this, among the big points I make in my book is that we have to be vigilant about Arab cultural imperialism as much as American imperialism.
Islam – and I’m not the first person to say this and I realise it is rather dangerous to go public with a sentiment like this. But Islam has failed to move Arab culture beyond its tribalism. There was a time I know that the Prophet Mohamed introduced Islam precisely to move Arab culture beyond the cycle of vendetta and counter-vendetta of internecine warfare; of viewing women as evil temptresses that need to be contained, etc. And for the first several decades of Islam, it seemed that that worked. But something went wrong early on and tribal loyalty was then exploited by Arab Muslim conquerors for the purposes of imperialism rather than Islam being used to move beyond tribal loyalties.
So I think that the person who asked the question has a really important point. And here’s the bottom line, as I say in the book, that if we as Muslims can unhinge the practise of Islam from Arab cultural imperialism then frankly I think we’ve got a hope in hell of reform but if we can’t, I don’t hold out too much hope.
Newshost:
Let’s hold onto the hopeful side of it. Irshad Manji it is a pleasure talking to you. Thank you for joining us. That's all we have time for. Thanks again to my guest, Irshad Manji author of the book "The Trouble with Islam" and to you for your questions. From me, Razia Iqbal and the rest of the interactive team here in London, goodbye.
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