Why did not you make Ethiopia faction

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

I think the point is that there is a difference between a culture and a faction slot. A culture determines what a whole range of buildings will look like in a city, FM portraits, etc. A faction slot just borrows the culture.

Hence, you are not using up extra culture slots by having multiple factions within a culture.

At least, that's what I'm reading from other posts. The OP is a troll.

I don't know about the last assertion, but about the faction slot vs culture slot you are right, but faction slot is limited to 28 if I remember (I read that waaay back when EB2 team talked about the factions in the game) . That's why there are no more factions. I was just stating that 9 helenic factions was a lot and maybe one of them could have been removed to chose an other faction, more original and unique, and thus respecting the 28 factions limit of the game.

Or maybe I didn't understood the 28 factions limit of M2TW and in that case, I can't see one valid argument against the creation of a kushite faction.

[Achilles Lacedaemon]

Well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kushite

Without considering wikipedia as a master source, we can say that kushite faction is always forgotten in the classic area games. The only mod I know for now having them is De Bello Mundi.

It is an interesting culture, and they sure where not nabateans or sab'yn.

Without going in the allegedly "game" of the op, and even if I am really glad the new factions on EB2 where chosen that way, I must say I regret the numerous greek/hellenic factions in EB, compared to the numerous other factions that could have been implanted.

- Makedonia
- Epeiros
- Koinon Hellenon
- Seleukid Empire
- Ptolemaioi
- Baktria
- Pontos (semi-helenic)
- Pergamon
- Bosporan Kingdom

9 hellenic factions on a total of 28 factions... Almost one third of the factions is hellenic culture.

I understand the high role of hellenic culture in the area, but adding some, even if I will have real fun with them, seems to me those slots could have been used for other cultures.

Kushites, yes. But why not Belgae ? (Well, indeed there is a lot of celtic/germanic culture in EB2, I concede that point)

I mean... Kushites had taken egypt and was a great empire for some times, then loses but kept beeing a important economic faction in that area untill some AD time ! (out of the range of EB) They had their own alphabet, resisted the romans according to sources, and had prosperity, economic and military power...

So... I don't shay EB2 team should do it, but I say the idea is not illogical, in fact it could have been done.

The problem is that all of those Hellenic and Hellenistic factions are different from each other.

Macedon is the base of the hellenistic culture, with their pike army and base greek stuff, and a major power
Epeiros is the coalition of an hellenistic state with aetolian and illyrian peoples, with italic influence aswell
Koinon Hellenon is the last light of the ancient hellenic culture, with legendary poleis such as Athens and Sparta, the very foundation of the first peoples who defended greece and its culture, with hoplite based troops
Seleukid Empire sometimes could even not be considered '' greek '', since its more of an mixure of anatolian, egyptian, asian, persian and indian peoples with greeks
Ptolemaioi, even being a sucessor, its more egyptian than greek
Baktria, even being an hellenistic capital, its based on an Indo-Greek culture, influenced more by Indian
Bosporan Kingdom, Im sorry but I dont belive in them being any '' greek '' at all, they were probably more of an scythian culture, EB sometimes thinks that Greek Culture = Globalization

About Pergamon and Pontos, well I dont see any difference between them, rather than they being influential and hellenistic.



I indeed dont agree with the way some cultures are represented, like if they were 90-100% greek. Looking at the ancient times, nations such as the Ptolemaioi, Seleucid and Baktrian were all probably much more influenced by its local peoples/culture rather than by the far away greek lands, Alexander didnt exterminated and erased/replaced the culture of these native peoples, he just conquered, if not annexed, these territories, and call them '' greek '' is kinda premature. Egyptians were in Egypt since its very foundation, much later Alexander would annex it to his empire, and does this mean that the Egyptian culture would be erased and 100% replaced by Hellenistic? Of course not, and even if it was that easy, it would require generations for it to be done.

You can destroy/erase/demolish/vanish/obliterate/burn an nation and people, but you will never be able to destroy its culture and history.

[Admiral Piett]

Actually, the faction limit is 31, 30 plus the rebel slot. They have not settled on the final two factions. I actually am one of those in favor of at least one more southern faction, whether it be Kush or Meroe. A new culture slot is not required any more than the Indian faction Taxila didn't. Though they were a sub-Saharan ethnicity, their culture was quite similar to Egypt's with monument building and were strongly influenced by Semitic culture due to their ties to the Sabean Arabs. The Ptolemaic faction is quite boring just fighting the Seleukids mostly and it could make a more interesting campaign, preventing Egypt from steam rolling through Syria as it happens in every EB I campaign for me.

There are many interesting prospects. Such as the Celto-Illyrian Scordisci, the Illyrian Dardanian kingdom, the Celtic-Thracian Tylis kingdom, and the Belgaic-Germanic tribe of Treverii. Or perhaps the Celto-Estruscan Rhaetians or the only centralized Celtic state, the Noricum kingdom.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

I so agree with you. On dbm I played kushites only to try to restore Nile dynasties, with a whole change of culture roleplayed right in my mind.

As you said... Lot of cultures that are not known but aught to be known.

I didn't know that about the faction slots. I must have misread years before when eb2 team made the announcements.

Belgae is quite common indeed and it won't be my first choice (I qm from Belgium though so it is difficult to say it )
What is interesting about them is that they where mixed cultures, between continental celts, Britannia Celts and "Germans". (Note the quotes)

But there is a lot of celts factions already so... If we start on Belgae, what about helvetica ? Etc. It is a rather bad idea at the end because it will launch a chain reaction of justification of the presence of a lot of Celt minor tribes. (I regret the Galatians too)

[Admiral Piett]

I so agree with you. On dbm I played kushites only to try to restore Nile dynasties, with a whole change of culture roleplayed right in my mind.

As you said... Lot of cultures that are not known but aught to be known.

I didn't know that about the faction slots. I must have misread years before when eb2 team made the announcements.

Belgae is quite common indeed and it won't be my first choice (I qm from Belgium though so it is difficult to say it )
What is interesting about them is that they where mixed cultures, between continental celts, Britannia Celts and "Germans". (Note the quotes)

But there is a lot of celts factions already so... If we start on Belgae, what about helvetica ? Etc. It is a rather bad idea at the end because it will launch a chain reaction of justification of the presence of a lot of Celt minor tribes. (I regret the Galatians too)

Yeah, the Belgae should be lower on the list compared to some of the other possibilities. Just so long as we don't end up with Galatia, Asia Minor has enough representation. Most of the Caucasus like Colchis and Iberia are also decent candidates.

Adding Kush or Meroe without their own culture, especially for the portraits, is a no go. You do not want a particular group of people coming here asking why are they white

Correct me if I'm wrong, but portraits can be made faction specific can they not? I thought this was why Taxila could be made.

[Kull]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but portraits can be made faction specific can they not? I thought this was why Taxila could be made.

Not faction per se, but if you have different religions within a culture group, each religion can have it's own portraits. Settlements can be unique to each faction, so that's another area of specialization. But things get trickier when you start looking at voices and eventpics. The latter is locked into "culture", so you'd never be able to have eventpics that are truly unique to a fringe faction like Kush or even India.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Not faction per se, but if you have different religions within a culture group, each religion can have it's own portraits. Settlements can be unique to each faction, so that's another area of specialization. But things get trickier when you start looking at voices and eventpics. The latter is locked into "culture", so you'd never be able to have eventpics that are truly unique to a fringe faction like Kush or even India.

Wow... it's sad how it is locked. Too bad, because I it restrain a lot of possibilities, now.

[Admiral Piett]

Voices and event pics wouldn't be that big a deal when compared to portraits, strat map models, and settlements though. I suppose its plausible for that region to make an appearance, it just might be a lot of work. As would the Tokharoi. (The timeline issues notwithstanding)

[yuezhi]

Not faction per se, but if you have different religions within a culture group, each religion can have it's own portraits. Settlements can be unique to each faction, so that's another area of specialization. But things get trickier when you start looking at voices and eventpics. The latter is locked into "culture", so you'd never be able to have eventpics that are truly unique to a fringe faction like Kush or even India.

What about existing voice differences within North Europe culture, especially English and French?

[krste]

Adding Kush or Meroe without their own culture, especially for the portraits, is a no go. You do not want a particular group of people coming here asking why are they white .

[yuezhi]

Kush and Meroe are in Sudan, not Ethiopia.

Even Nubia is Sudanese.

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

Kush and Meroe are in Sudan, not Ethiopia.

Even Nubia is Sudanese.

Yeah sorry, we agreed the op was a troll so we tried to talk about something a little related, with a little less troll than the op :p

[Appius Pulcher]

I am still rooting for Belgea. There needs to be some more buffer between the Germanians and Gaul.

[yuezhi]

NO, YUEZHI!!

[Floren d'Asteneuz]

NO, YUEZHI!!

No kidding

[haereticum]

...to troll the trolling op?

[nein]

Play broken crescent if you want to try an Ethiopian black faction... makuria

[Antonius]

I don't think he is trolling I think he has a distorted, nationalistic world view...
I have been following EB II (and the forum) since the very beginning and there have been people here seriously wanting Russia, Islam, Pakistan (I kid you not)

Generally I just got pissed off by these kinds of questions because it just shows people didn't take 5mins time to understand what this mod is about before demanding utterly illogical things so I created this thread:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6#post10155726

[athanaric]

I'd love to see the Tokharoi in EB II, but it'll probably never happen, seeing as they'd be an emergent, non-playable faction with a separate language (although I suppose one could place them in the same culture group as the Saka). Likewise, an Ethiopian or "Sudanese" faction would be great, but apart from culture group considerations it'd be severely handicapped in its expansion options. IMO it's better to have a separate mod for ancient/Medieval Africa...

Generally I just got pissed off by these kinds of questions because it just shows people didn't take 5mins time to understand what this mod is about before demanding utterly illogical things so I created this thread:

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...6#post10155726

I think we should revive that thread. For the record, I want a unit that launches Banelings.

[Mr.IAmHere]

Done!