Formation Width Fix Request For CA

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Hi, CA.

First of all, I would just like to thank you for fixing the formations. I've tested it with and without 'matched combat be gone' and the formations don't move! I thought this day would never come haha

Now, since you're on a roll and doing a good job, I just thought I could drop a suggestion, or more like a request, which I know a lot of people would indeed back me up on. CA, can you please give us the ability to stretch Hoplite Phalanx and Shield Wall as far as possible please? Because formations can reliably hold now, I can expect to fight off an angry Germanic army coming down from the north with some confidence now. I know that as soon as the Germans collide into my ranks, I do not need to keep an eye on it as the formation will remain solid. It's all going good.

Now, if we had the ability to stretch these two formations even further we'd be able to cover even more ground. There is no real reason for the Hoplite and Shield wall formation to be that deep. If we stretch the formation so far that we only have like two ranks deep, that's our problem. Let us suffer the bracing penalty. But, CA, please give us this option. A job well done for making these formation hold but giving us the ability to stretch our formation will allow us to use one unit to lock down a street, instead of two.

Thank you, CA. You've done a great job with these patches.#

People, make your voices heard in this in this thread so CA can include this in a hotfix

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Now, since you're on a roll and doing a good job

Couldn't help it firend! Let's all suck up to CA, and pretend it's all fine . Maybe they'll spare us some jaw-dropping future disappointment, that they WILL call "Only the best for you".
See how the game is not what it should be? You even have your own mod - which is just another chain meant to pull Rome 2 out of the gutter. Behind all this, there's only a fan's love (like you), and a company that says "SEGA first, fans next" (like you know who).

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

Couldn't help it firend! Let's all suck up to CA, and pretend it's all fine . Maybe they'll spare us some jaw-dropping future disappointment, that they WILL call "Only the best for you".
See how the game is not what it should be? You even have your own mod - which is just another chain meant to pull Rome 2 out of the gutter. Behind all this, there's only a fan's love (like you), and a company that says "SEGA first, fans next" (like you know who).

Why? What is the need for this? Is it necessary to complain in every single thread? This thread's sole purpose is trying to improve the game, in a polite, well-mannered way. And you are mocking the OP for this? Do you not want to see the game improved? Are you just trying to be popular by insulting the developers and and the game and anyone who tries to be civil and nice about anything pertaining to them?

This post is literally the definition of trolling. Just go away.


To the OP: Yes, I agree. I found this to be quite a weird design decision, actually. I often like to spread out a long, thin line of hoplites in front of my main line, to absorb the brunt of the shock.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Why? What is the need for this? Is it necessary to complain in every single thread? This thread's sole purpose is trying to improve the game, in a polite, well-mannered way. And you are mocking the OP for this? Do you not want to see the game improved? Are you just trying to be popular by insulting the developers and and the game and anyone who tries to be civil and nice about anything pertaining to them?

This post is literally the definition of trolling. Just go away.

You can be polite to CA (after you've given them your money) all you want. This thread is asking (demanding anyone?) of CA what should have been already there.
My last line shows I'm not mocking DogSoldierSPQR.
You can't fix what's broken in such a manner - as I've said before "mods are to prolong game life, NOT save it".
I'm not trying to be any more popular than CA's infamy.

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Couldn't help it firend! Let's all suck up to CA, and pretend it's all fine . Maybe they'll spare us some jaw-dropping future disappointment, that they WILL call "Only the best for you".
See how the game is not what it should be? You even have your own mod - which is just another chain meant to pull Rome 2 out of the gutter. Behind all this, there's only a fan's love (like you), and a company that says "SEGA first, fans next" (like you know who).

I like to keep things fair. Rome 2 came out in a state not many actually liked, but it's undeniable that a lot of effort has been put into this game. To be honest with you, if the issue that I made this thread for is resolved, I'd have all I will ever really need from Rome 2. I can understand your disappointment in this game as I was super disappointed too, but one should never ignore the effort that has gone into fixing Rome 2. CA could've easily just moved on. Please stay on topic to this thread, please, mate.

I definitely approve of this since there is the "bracing penalty" besides the pike phalanx can be stretched out to a thin line. The formations are getting better, but there is still few things I would personally like to see. For example I would like to see these changes mainly for overall formation continuity -

Pike Phalanx - I would like to see the tighter formation return when in "Pike Phalanx", sure let them have the new looser formation when this ability is not activated. If "Shield Wall" and "Hoplite Phalanx" are in tighter formation when their ability is activated so should the pike formation as well. Not only does it look better it's historical, one of the issue Pike based armies always had to overcome was their battleline was always a little bit shorter especially when dealing with the Romans.

Hoplite unit spacing when not in phalanx - Hoplites should use the looser spacing when not in their special "Hoplite Phalanx" formation. This is mainly for continuity plus it would sure up the battle line where don't have all these odd sized units which is mainly a Hellenic faction situation.

The pike based armies were my favorite to use in single player, but I can't stand the retarded loose pike formations Especially when shield wall and hoplite phalanx still utilize the tighter formation spacing.

BTW this should apply too the "Shield Screen" formation as well.

The way it is right now, we don't really have that many options. The formations just do not cover a lot of ground and they get flanked very easily. It's pretty shocking to actually see how many units you have to have in Shield wall to actually make a nice long frontline. It's definitely possible to implement that same system that the Pike Phalanx has to the shield walls and the Hoplite Phalanx as well. The thinner the line, the worse the bracing is. To me, it just seems the formation is capped via a specific value CA has just left in there in the hard-coding. A developer in CA can just see this thread, change a value and then we have exactly what we want.

You definitely have some very interesting points, friend. Thank you. I definitely agree with the Pikemen having really tight formations when they are in Phalanx formation.

A quick note about the shield screen. I know the formation can't move as it is meant to be a bracing formation, but I think it kinda sucks how we can't adjust the width on that as well. Sure they're meant to be stationary but I'm sure guys could've adjusted the formation if they needed to. Some nice little changes like this would make the Rome 2 experience waaaaay more better, and to be fair, 9 patches later this game is astonishingly better than the release version. Still, it's undeniable that much more work is needed.

I definitely agree with you about the spacing in general. It just doesn't seem like much thought went into it.

It's not that hoplites should be spaced looser when out of phalanx, so much as the fact that they should be tighter when in phalanx... Zoom in and check out their shield wall, very unconvincing.

A little bit of tightening on their formation and it would look way more presentable and neat.

Why? What is the need for this? Is it necessary to complain in every single thread? This thread's sole purpose is trying to improve the game, in a polite, well-mannered way. And you are mocking the OP for this? Do you not want to see the game improved? Are you just trying to be popular by insulting the developers and and the game and anyone who tries to be civil and nice about anything pertaining to them?

This post is literally the definition of trolling. Just go away.


To the OP: Yes, I agree. I found this to be quite a weird design decision, actually. I often like to spread out a long, thin line of hoplites in front of my main line, to absorb the brunt of the shock.

It really didn't make sense to me why the width was capped even when they have so many men to make it so much longer, and that we have the ability to dictate exactly how many men we want in each unit. I do firmly believe that it is just a specific value that is capping this, instead of a design limitation of some kind. Just a little bit of awareness about this issue and a CA employee can fix it for us.

Hoplites used to have very long lines so that the enemy could only really come from the front. Since the formations hold now, I've tried putting quite a few hoplite units in formation side by side and the result is just beautiful. But this fix that I mentioned would allow us to create a longer line with fewer units, which means more reserves and more options. I have faith though. It's just about the awareness we can raise for this small, but very important issue.

On the subject: Pike phalanx should be tighter as it was in the beginning (isn't this a little back'n'forth patch progress?). Not to mention impregnable from the front (it was five rows of leveled pikes, not what we see in Rome 2).
As for the hoplite phalanx.... It's not the same as the pike one. Still they made it the same way.... I expected real grinding from hoplite phalanx and roman legionaires... Maybe in Rome 3... DogSoldierSPQR may you be heard...

Was a big shame to see the Pike Phalanx in the game for myself. Many people were disappointed, myself included. Many factions use it so I thought CA would've given it priority. Indeed, I was wrong. Right now, the only good thing about the Pike Phalanx is that it can be an effective pinning formation, depending on the mod you use ofcourse.

One of the biggest disappointments about the Hoplite Phalanx in this game is how it is literally a copy and paste of the shield wall. Formation isn't tight enough and the width not adjustable. Hoplites would've strived to have a line as long as possible so that the enemy could only come from the front, which then gave the Hoplites the advantage. If we're lucky, mate, I may get heard now and we may in the very least get the width adjustable, which would at least make them formations worth using. Let's hope, mate.

[Kinjo]

I definitely approve of this since there is the "bracing penalty" besides the pike phalanx can be stretched out to a thin line. The formations are getting better, but there is still few things I would personally like to see. For example I would like to see these changes mainly for overall formation continuity -

Pike Phalanx - I would like to see the tighter formation return when in "Pike Phalanx", sure let them have the new looser formation when this ability is not activated. If "Shield Wall" and "Hoplite Phalanx" are in tighter formation when their ability is activated so should the pike formation as well. Not only does it look better it's historical, one of the issue Pike based armies always had to overcome was their battleline was always a little bit shorter especially when dealing with the Romans.

Hoplite unit spacing when not in phalanx - Hoplites should use the looser spacing when not in their special "Hoplite Phalanx" formation. This is mainly for continuity plus it would sure up the battle line where don't have all these odd sized units which is mainly a Hellenic faction situation.

The pike based armies were my favorite to use in single player, but I can't stand the retarded loose pike formations Especially when shield wall and hoplite phalanx still utilize the tighter formation spacing.

BTW this should apply too the "Shield Screen" formation as well.

[DeliCiousTZM]

Hoplite unit spacing when not in phalanx - Hoplites should use the looser spacing when not in their special "Hoplite Phalanx" formation. This is mainly for continuity plus it would sure up the battle line where don't have all these odd sized units which is mainly a Hellenic faction situation.

The pike based armies were my favorite to use in single player, but I can't stand the retarded loose pike formations Especially when shield wall and hoplite phalanx still utilize the tighter formation spacing.
BTW this should apply too the "Shield Screen" formation as well.

What am i missing here? My hopilites are much more spread out when their not in phalanx.

Couldn't help it firend! Let's all suck up to CA, and pretend it's all fine . Maybe they'll spare us some jaw-dropping future disappointment, that they WILL call "Only the best for you".
See how the game is not what it should be? You even have your own mod - which is just another chain meant to pull Rome 2 out of the gutter. Behind all this, there's only a fan's love (like you), and a company that says "SEGA first, fans next" (like you know who).

I read this with Danny O'dwyer voice over at Gamespot feedbackula. Cracked me up! on a more serious note though.

Another one that really needs fixing is defensive testudo which at the moment is unusable because it is so narrow

And they should increase the arrow reflection on them by a little bit more.

[sobchack]

...

pike spacing right now is pretty unhistorical, I wish they would change it back to pre patch 7 spacing. they looked awesome when they first came out

[Friar Chris]

It's not that hoplites should be spaced looser when out of phalanx, so much as the fact that they should be tighter when in phalanx... Zoom in and check out their shield wall, very unconvincing.

[Hoplite of Ilis]

On the subject: Pike phalanx should be tighter as it was in the beginning (isn't this a little back'n'forth patch progress?). Not to mention impregnable from the front (it was five rows of leveled pikes, not what we see in Rome 2).
As for the hoplite phalanx.... It's not the same as the pike one. Still they made it the same way.... I expected real grinding from hoplite phalanx and roman legionaires... Maybe in Rome 3... DogSoldierSPQR may you be heard...

[Hoplite of Ilis]

Redesigning the hoplitic phalanx as to its attacking properties would mean new animations? Like pushing forward when in combat. You may have already seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZt5kpN8T8 What I expected from Rome 2 was from 03:00 and after - mostly

[Octavius Vatco]

There is indeed an improvement in formation combat in Rome 2. However CA still needs to push more to it.. it must be the single combat animations or maybe the high casualty rate?

Old Rome 1 mods got the formations to really hold like in mine.
[IMG][/IMG]

[Hoplite of Ilis]

There is indeed an improvement in formation combat in Rome 2. However CA still needs to push more to it.. it must be the single combat animations or maybe the high casualty rate?

It is the sword play animations - you got that right. Units break off formation to do the sword fight, and the whole thing looks like a mess. Even in the front of a pike phalanx. They say that someone managed to remove those animations, and use only basic thrusts/chops. But I have yet to find out more...

[GussieFinkNottle]

Hi, CA.

First of all, I would just like to thank you for fixing the formations. I've tested it with and without 'matched combat be gone' and the formations don't move! I thought this day would never come haha

Now, since you're on a roll and doing a good job, I just thought I could drop a suggestion, or more like a request, which I know a lot of people would indeed back me up on. CA, can you please give us the ability to stretch Hoplite Phalanx and Shield Wall as far as possible please? Because formations can reliably hold now, I can expect to fight off an angry Germanic army coming down from the north with some confidence now. I know that as soon as the Germans collide into my ranks, I do not need to keep an eye on it as the formation will remain solid. It's all going good.

Now, if we had the ability to stretch these two formations even further we'd be able to cover even more ground. There is no real reason for the Hoplite and Shield wall formation to be that deep. If we stretch the formation so far that we only have like two ranks deep, that's our problem. Let us suffer the bracing penalty. But, CA, please give us this option. A job well done for making these formation hold but giving us the ability to stretch our formation will allow us to use one unit to lock down a street, instead of two.

Thank you, CA. You've done a great job with these patches.#

People, make your voices heard in this in this thread so CA can include this in a hotfix

Another one that really needs fixing is defensive testudo which at the moment is unusable because it is so narrow

[DogSoldierSPQR]

Redesigning the hoplitic phalanx as to its attacking properties would mean new animations? Like pushing forward when in combat. You may have already seen this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DHZt5kpN8T8 What I expected from Rome 2 was from 03:00 and after - mostly

That's a good video. Thanks for linking it.
It's a shame we couldn't get anything like that. Yes, if CA had to make the proper Hoplite Phalanx they would have to make an entirely new animation set for it. It is a lot of work, but to be honest, antiquity consists of a large portion of factions involved who use a lot of Hoplites. There would have been enough reason to embark on such a challenge to create an animation set like this. I will admit, giving the hoplites regular spearmen animations was just laziness.

Another one that really needs fixing is defensive testudo which at the moment is unusable because it is so narrow

I second this. My recommendation to fix the defensive Testudo is the same for what I said with the shield screen. It may be a formation we're not allowed to advance in, but we should have the option of how much width we'd like on it. It's understandable they can't move in this formation, but it's reasonable that they should be able to re-form on the spot though

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

Yes they are doing a great job at CA with fomations only now the Blood and Core Animations are more rare then before. I dont see them anymore payed 3 euro,s for a bit of blood just geat CA thx fo that.

[jamreal18]

Most formations currently suck

Testudo: Huge gaps between shields, also entirely open sides
Shield Wall: Not even vaguely wall-like; the men just raise their shields while standing loosely spaced
Hoplite Phalanx: Same as shield wall. Don't even vaguely overlap
Cavalry Testudo: Doesn't even activate, broken
Pike Phalanx: Not bad (generally works, at least), but still pretty spaced out. Also the magic pikes for pikemen are still not fixed yet and they shall be able to withstand enemy projectiles when under fire at front..

Agree!

[Hoplite of Ilis]

That's a good video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I2XLKmWAXyk Here's the second part. If CA won't, maybe they'll provide modders with the tools to do it.
Yes, it would take extra hard work to make it. But they did release a phalanx video, cause they knew (almost) everyone would want to see this. There was phalanx demand. Remember that Macedon vs Rome video? No zooming in on the hoplite phalanx when in close combat.

[AgentGB]

Oh they sounded like they fixed the problem i had with phalanx formations, and them being able to be stretched to a 2 rank deep formation, which wasn't very historical, gonna load it up now actually and check.

That was the problem before.
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showthread.php?630216-Suggestion-To-Stop-Blobbing&highlight=


Edit: phalanx aren't to OP now, which is good, units still attack towards the center, but seems alot fairer. Units can also be stretched really thin which isn't to great, but the weight/depth now seems to have a bit of a factor, even when over lapping units in stretched out formation, not so gamey now. Good job.

[Master.Mind]

Have you thought about posting this thread in the official forum? It's more likely that some CA employee will see it than here