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Thread: Musket accuracy!

  1. #1
    Wismar's Avatar Civis
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    Icon5 Musket accuracy!

    Hello! I recently got the NTW3 mod and the musket accuracy in that is shite. Is there anyway for me to copy+paste old vanilla files back into the game while playing the mod?

    If so, could anyone upload them or help me getting them back? Cheers

  2. #2

    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    You'd have to edit the db . . . but, fyi, the way NTW3 portrays musket accuracy is much more historically accurate, and well balanced with the rest of the mod. Adding stock "laser" accuracy would probably screw things up.

  3. #3
    Wismar's Avatar Civis
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    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    It really isn't. In my first volley from a line infantry 112 muskets were shot at point blank range at the enemy (5 meters). Only 27 of the enemy died.

  4. #4
    Saddletank's Avatar Tiro
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    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    NTW3 is an accuracy mod and scales the game completely differently to the vanilla game and all other mods. Ground scale is 3:1, figure scale is 6:1. It plays differently for a reason. Also:

    - According to R. Henegan the British infantry at Vittoria fired on average 459 rounds for 1 French casualty. (Henegan - "Seven Years' Campaigning in the Peninsula and the Netherlands", pp 344-345)
    - Napier witnessed volleys fired by British infantry (in Spain) where out of 300 musketballs fired none hit the target.
    - At Vittoria, the British infantry had on average 1 hit in 459 shots fired. I assume that the ratio for French infantry was lower, as they had much less training.
    - Hughes calculated for Albuera, for several volleys at 100 yards the British achieved 5 % ratio of casualties.
    - During one of the battles of the Revolutionary Wars, General Duhesme found his battalion firing at Austrian battalion at 100 paces. It was a lengthy firefight and Duhesme expected heavy casualties, he was however very surprised, there were only 3-4 men hit.
    - In 1813 at Gohrde, 66 French infantrymen fired at 60-80 paces at Germans hiting 27 Hannoverians and Bremen-Verden (40 % hits). In this case the count is only for one volley at close range.
    - In 1813 at Dennewitz, a single squadron of Prussian Brandenburg Dragoons attacked a French battalion formed in square. The infantry delivered volley at 30 paces killing 23 horses and 7 men, and wounding 18 horses and 21 men. It seems poor accuracy but the horse could take several bullets before falling dead. The number of hits was probably higher than actual casualties. Eighty dragoons were untouched by the musketry. Cavalrymen were smaller targets than horses, and they ducked under fire. It made them even smaller targets.
    - Mark Adkin calculated the effectiveness of muskets at Waterloo. He wrote that in the prolonged fighting for Hougoumont "it took 224 French musket shots to secure a hit. This is not such a poor performance as it seems. Most defenders (Germans and British) were behind cover of some sort for much of the time, if only a hedge or a tree. The majority were behind brick walls."
    - General Gassendi of the French army calculated that only 1 shot in 3.000 resulted in casulty.
    - According to Guibert only 0.2 % of all shots hit the target. All shots means all shots, not only the battalion salvos at close range repeatedly described in many memoirs. Up to 15-25 % % of all shots were misfires, many troops fired at too long distance, some of the lightly wounded went uncounted, part of ammunition nominally fired was thrown away by soldiers etc.

    (Data and examples stated by Friant on Lordz forum).

    This mod is not for everyone, it plays at a slower pace and is less about wham-bam-Hollywood smash-em-up fights. You can play many other mods if you prefer that pace of gameplay.
    Last edited by Saddletank; January 31, 2014 at 07:41 AM.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wismar View Post
    It really isn't. In my first volley from a line infantry 112 muskets were shot at point blank range at the enemy (5 meters). Only 27 of the enemy died.
    As far as NTW3 is concerned, that is 15m, and yes, that is probably fairly accurate for that range (see above). Remember many soldiers would be hit twice, many muskets would misfire, and, as tight as the formations were (and based on detailed studies I've read of the ACW battles, I think we often exaggerate the actual, vs. theoretical, closeness of formations on the move) there was still plenty of room for small lead balls to go around or over their targets.

    Anyway, there is no easy fix for what you ask. If you want, you'd have to edit the .dbs yourself, though I'd submit you'd likely "break" the mod doing that.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Nimitstexan View Post
    Hello! I recently got the NTW3 mod and the musket accuracy in that is shite. Is there anyway for me to copy+paste old vanilla files back into the game while playing the mod?

    If so, could anyone upload them or help me getting them back? Cheers
    .
    Sounds to me like your your ignorant even for a troll,(which is something quite special) i could show you the door to vanilla,(which lets face it,is a bag of poop but which sounds like its what your looking for) or maybe you could learn to mod yourself from the extensive threads on TWC and incorperate a maxim machine gun from The great war mod.
    Either way why such a learned group of chaps from the ntw3 community are even bothering to educate a 10 year old is,well,astounding.
    Move along now Wismar (waves my hand) THIS IS NOT THE MOD YOUR LOOKING FOR...

  7. #7
    General A. Skywalker's Avatar Primicerius
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    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    Quote Originally Posted by Wismar View Post
    It really isn't. In my first volley from a line infantry 112 muskets were shot at point blank range at the enemy (5 meters). Only 27 of the enemy died.

    Historically such a volley would have caused more casualties than that, yes!


    However, all in all NTW3 delivers a fairly realistic battle experience compared to vanilla where firefights lasted like 2 minutes and one volley at maximum range causing tremendous casualties and units fighting almost till death.

    NTW3 handles firefights really well... and the morale system is amazing!

    And remember: 30 men going down all at the SAME TIME is quite a devastating experience.
    ALSO: I think the scale of men is not 1:1... I like to think 100 men in NTW represent more than 100 in real life... just think of it as a system counting in some reinforcements or men from behind lines filling up ranks. It adds up!! MUCH more than vanilla to say the least.

    And by the way: Muskets were actually relatively accurate weapons... hit ratios have nothing (I repeat: nothing) to do with weapon accuracy.
    In today's wars (and WWII and whatever..) the hit ratio of all bullets fired is... relatively nill. (Since there's a quadrizillion bullets fired within minutes there's still heavy casualties.)
    Last edited by General A. Skywalker; March 09, 2014 at 04:53 PM.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    One only has to compare the range tests with battlefield performance to confirm that what the General says is true. Primary evidence suggests that in battle most shots went over everyone's heads suggesting that under stress men anticipated the recoil of the weapon when firing. There are also reports of men closing their eyes when pulling the trigger, or turning away before firing. It must also be remembered that in battle men were constantly jostled by others in the ranks and were rarely able to see who they were firing at. The other key factor mentioned by men of the 95th was that few if any regiments other than themselves were taught to lead a moving target, and so unless you were standing still the chance of being hit by someone aiming at you was very slight, even if it was an enemy sharpshooter.
    Last edited by Didz; March 11, 2014 at 12:38 PM.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Musket accuracy!

    He was asking for how to mod musket files and you awere talking abour historic musket accuracy lol

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