Mangonels and Trebuchets on the field of battle?

[Destraex]

It does not strike me as very realistic to have Trebuchets setup in time for a field battle.
Some MTW2 pics seem to show them in major battles setup nowhere near a siege.

Am I dreaming?

[Spart]

You mean these?

They seem to be part of field battles pretty often.. I wouldn't use them on flat field, they didn't cause much casualties in Medieval I. Hope they're more enjoyable this time.

[Fianóglach]

I too would like to see them removed from open field battles. Ideally, they would be placed only as a building option in the siege interface (the same as Battering Rams, Ladders, and Siege Towers in RTW) The time it took to build these engines would mean they would not have a chance in hell of being ready for a regular battle. It's not as if they are mobile, just purpose built for sieges then broken down and transported in pieces, only to be rebuilt at another siege, or not at all. I know it's cool to have them throwing stones at formations of Infantry, and I guess thats why CA have made them a 'unit' and not 'siege equipment'.

[KaerMorhen]

I too would like to see them removed from open field battles. Ideally, they would be placed only as a building option in the siege interface (the same as Battering Rams, Ladders, and Siege Towers in RTW) The time it took to build these engines would mean they would not have a chance in hell of being ready for a regular battle. It's not as if they are mobile, just purpose built for sieges then broken down and transported in pieces, only to be rebuilt at another siege, or not at all. I know it's cool to have them throwing stones at formations of Infantry, and I guess thats why CA have made them a 'unit' and not 'siege equipment'.

good point I agree

[CIaagent11]

I know it's cool to have them throwing stones at formations of Infantry, and I guess thats why CA have made them a 'unit' and not 'siege equipment'.

I agree. But I dont agree that this needs to be a bad thing.
Why is everything slightly unhistorical automaticly bad?
Can't we have fun with something that didnt happen in exact the same way in medieval ages?

The fact that it is a computer game and medieval age europe had to pe translated on a screen makes it more unhistorical than any "important" faction missing or elephants with cannons.
So please, can't we accept that its a game and stop complaining about the unhistorical things we notice?

Here are some things that are probably more unhistorical than trebuchets in field battles.
- Less than 80% of most armies being unarmored peasants.
- A whole kingdom being managed as one
- Masses of dismounted, armored knights fighting each others, if you had the money to buy armory, wou would certainly stay away from where casulties
- Big battles at all, Medieval war was mostly small skirmishes
-
Cant think of mor right now, but I hpe you are getting what I want to say.

Havn't heared anybody complain about these. Probably because it suits the gameplay.
Gameplay comes first and historical accuracy second, anybody who claims the different lies.

[Beiss]

Well... if building them takes so long, then sallying out from the settlement should be possible before the enemy can deply their trebuches, and then they shouldn't be in that kind of a battle. Also, if someone is being attacked out in the open, they should have time to deploy their trebuches before the enemy arrives. Right? I understand that it's rather unrealistic to have trebuches in a battle where you attack an army yourself, but you are being attacked and have enough visual range to see the enemy on the campaign map before he attacks you, you should be able to use them to defende yourself. In RTW I sometimes used 3 catapult units (and nothing else) to kill an enemy general. This would, of course, be ridiculous, since the general wouldn't sit on his horse and wait for me to deploy my catapults. Hehe

[Invoker]

My guess is that CA will make trebuchets buildable units availible for open field battles, because the majority of their target demographic would enjoy it, much like they enjoyed the completely ahistorical Egypt in RTW. It'd be nice if they were only availible in sieges though, and despite my almost religious fervor for realism, I will probably enjoy blasting enemy infantry nonetheless. At least until I get my hands on artillery.

[PurpleScotch]

I dont care if this game is not 100% historical, fun is the #1 option i would take, I like having trebuchets and other catapult units in open field battle, and again this is NOT a simulation its a war game made for fun, that uises history but not 100% of it only 50-60% maybe less, i wouldnt like them if they were pre-seige built only.
I believe CA chose the right choice. First comes gameplay then comes history as a 2nd priority.

[Destraex]

Beiss, i understand that it took days not hours to assemble these machines. I also understand that they were sighted on one point as they were built because they could not be moved. Thus if you attack a castle wall with them the defender can tell for days which point on a wall will be attacked.
This usually resulted in a second wall being built or the defenses of that wall being bolstered.

The larger Trebuchets would be impossisble to aim with an army bearing down on you as sighting and shooting often took many shots to get right. It was a little like ships cannon technique. Shoot under then over and then in between in increments until you get it right.

Another point is the time it took to load these beasties, you would have no hope of reloading before a charge hit home.

Minimum range also has to be considered. i.e. when the enemy get under 100m you can forget about hitting them as your arc simply will not bend that far. Think if this like a tank main gun trying to depress to hit a man lying right in front of a tank

KillerXGuy, I hope that realism mods fix this problem then, as trebuchets belong in the baggage train only to be unpacked or produced during a siege where you have years to play with.
I thought their was talk of an artillery train for MTW2 at some point??

Merged double post. - Trajan

[Ringeck]

I think modding this form of artillery into an "unpackable" form will be really difficult, unless CA has implemented a routine in M2TW that requires a unit to be activated by the player before it can be used, instead of moving an army....

[Revan The Great]

There are certain times when Trebuchets could be appropriate for a battle. I'll use Thermopylae as an example.

I don't think Trebuchets had been invented at this point, but had they been invented it would have been easy to deploy them. Leonidas had several days advance warning of the Persian's arrival, if not more.

In addition to that, The Romans were also known to deploy artillery during battles, or more precisely have artillery ready for a battle...whether the enemy attacked or not was another story entirely.

[Petavian Belgae]

ok ,
but in single play they give the ai something.
I mean that like in RTW if attacked by ai without siege : no problem, but if the have siege units and hit you before you can hit them ,than you have a problem.(not for a long time but it makes the single battles a little bit harder).

[shadyrome]

Srry but game are meant to be fun. pointless if its boring and no one buys the game

[Nebuchadnezzar]

Only a dead army marches blind. They deploy scouts in all directions for many miles and most times considerably more. Too have advance notice of several days of a approaching army seems only logical and more than enough time to deploy trebuchets.

[God-Emperor of Mankind]

Well I love having artillery on the battlefield.
In MTW1 I usually had 1-2 trebuchets with me and will certainly do it now as well.

[molonthegreat]

i like to use artillery in battles its cool

[the_mango55]

You don't have to worry most likely, I doubt trebuchets will be effective in open battles anyway.

[Beiss]

Mleh. We'll have cannons instead of trebuches eventually The sad thing is that M2TW doesn't allow for people being dismembered by the cannon balls, and I doubt that you'll be able to play "bowling" with the cannon balls, either - ripping a hole straight through an enemy formation would just be too much fun

[Khozemnian]

Take a look at the new video "Chapter 4 - Siege Warfare". In there it states that while conducting a siege you will be able to construct certain siege weaponry i.e. mangonels & trebuchets. I've seen some videos where trebuchets are used in battle but it seems that you will only (not REALLY sure about this) be able to construct them during a siege. Sounds awesome to me.

[Spart]

Take a look at the new video "Chapter 4 - Siege Warfare". In there it states that while conducting a siege you will be able to construct certain siege weaponry i.e. mangonels & trebuchets. I've seen some videos where trebuchets are used in battle but it seems that you will only (not REALLY sure about this) be able to construct them during a siege. Sounds awesome to me.

I don't think so. Maybe you misunderstood? I think I saw them being built in a city. During a siege, you are able to build ladders, rams and towers. But I'm quite sure that mangonels and trebuchets are recruited in cities?