Aeimnestus Ancient Battle Realism submod (Version 1.3.1 - compatible with DeI 0.75c))

[Aeimnestus]

You have understand the point here : Rorariis don't die, but the general cavalry is litterraly decimated ^^
However, thanks for the mod, and I will try to tell you if I see some strange things again

Thanks, keep the feedback coming!
The cavalry changes I tested did the trick, they are now much more effective vs low quality spearmen (but still loose eventually in protracted melee)
However the changes also made cavalry charges too strong versus non-spear infantry. So I'll have to do some further tweaks and testing. Since I'm going on a short holiday, 1.3 will take about a week from now.

[Black9]

Thanks, keep the feedback coming!
The cavalry changes I tested did the trick, they are now much more effective vs low quality spearmen (but still loose eventually in protracted melee)
However the changes also made cavalry charges too strong versus non-spear infantry. So I'll have to do some further tweaks and testing. Since I'm going on a short holiday, 1.3 will take about a week from now.

Unacceptable. I need those auto-resolve changes!

[Maetharin]

Could you post a changelog in comparison to DeI stats, so i could try something out? Even though your approach to realism sounds pretty cool, as some cases suggest, it doesn´t fit all circumstances. I´ll try out to strengthen/weaken shields in proportion to your changes, maybe that would work out favorably?
Best regards!

[Leonnidas]

Hi, can I use your mod with Anabasis troop recruitment and agent costs??

[Cuddlefission]

Easy there, is just a week. I assume that statement was meant as a bit tongue in cheek, but the text format is hard on stuff like that - if it takes a week, it takes a week.

[Black9]

Easy there, is just a week. I assume that statement was meant as a bit tongue in cheek, but the text format is hard on stuff like that - if it takes a week, it takes a week.

Yeah, my dry sense of humor doesn't translate well through text, 'twas a jest.

[Cidalsleepwalker]

Yeah, my dry sense of humor doesn't translate well through text, 'twas a jest.

I got your joke man. I must have the same dry sense of humor as you do.

[ProtoBo]

Thanks to implementing those replenishment rate changes, they are above and beyond what I would have wanted. Going to try 1.2 out now, and the notes for upcoming 1.3 look awesome too, so can't wait for that! Many thanks Aeimnestus!

[Tishtar]

hello.
I seem to have a problem with this. rome 2 crashes to desktop in the Copyright screen tell me If I did something wrong:
I copied the file in the Data folder, and then made sure it is higher up than DEI pack file. I am using the historical development submod as well, but when I untick it, I still get CTD, so that is not the problem.
thanks

[Maetharin]

hello.
I seem to have a problem with this. rome 2 crashes to desktop in the Copyright screen tell me If I did something wrong:
I copied the file in the Data folder, and then made sure it is higher up than DEI pack file. I am using the historical development submod as well, but when I untick it, I still get CTD, so that is not the problem.
thanks

Hi, i have the same problem, after looking into the pack file with the PFM i noticed that it only contains strucures and not any data, could you upload a working version

[Navras81]

looks great. but when i start the game, it crushes. are you sure your submod full compatible with patch 9?

[Navras81]

my mistake.. it works now

[AnimaMea]

So glad to see this return, only problem I can see at the moment is that the phalanx is so tightly packed it causes units to jostle up and down constantly, could it be spread out just a little? The kill rates are a little slow when watching combat (a legionary charge into bronze shield pikes yesterday resulted in no casualties on either side, let alone the legionaries) however, the pace of the battle itself, with the emphasis thus placed on morale shocks and fatigue rather than a health count made my test the best battle I've played since Empire. Thanks!

[ProtoBo]

Have done a few test battles via a campaign and here are my personal thoughts:
The length of battles is good, nice and long, rewarding the cycling of units and use of out flanking. I do think it would be nicer to see the casualties during the fighting be a bit higher, as it does seem strange to me that after 20 mins of brawling a unit of basic infantry wouldn't take at least 10% losses (in the battles I saw cases of 0 casualties in a hoplite unit when fighting 2 or 3 other hoplite units over 30 mins, normal difficulty). I think the frustration is that troops that have high enough morale that they won't break when surrounded are simply invincible, because you can't kill them to reduce their morale, so they will fight in place for the entire battle. Against an army with lots of units like this, e.g. hoplite forces in my case, you thus can't inflict enough army losses to reduce their morale either. The result is good, in that the final battle results aren't huge casualties on both sides after an indecisive battle, but it seems less satisfying as a gameplay experience as it feels like your efforts were futile.

I think my recommendation from this would be to increase the morale penalty for being surrounded / exhausted so that tier 2 units will break in these conditions even with almost all their troops still alive, except in special cases e.g. general nearby, strong overall army advantage. And possibly increase charge bonuses, as it does seem reasonable that a charge will always inflict moderate losses, especially in the rear, which I don't think it does so far at the moment.

[ProtoBo]

Have done a few test battles via a campaign and here are my personal thoughts:

I have filmed a commentary battle using the submod, featuring a few of my thoughts and explaining the mod anyone unfamiliar. Hopefully people can use it to get a good idea of what the submod is about and how it's going to make your battles play out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1l-N52Ue4

Also Aeimnestus if you like this demonstration feel free to link it alongside your screenshot collections in the OP to further show your features!

[Cidalsleepwalker]

I have filmed a commentary battle using the submod, featuring a few of my thoughts and explaining the mod anyone unfamiliar. Hopefully people can use it to get a good idea of what the submod is about and how it's going to make your battles play out.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dT1l-N52Ue4

Also Aeimnestus if you like this demonstration feel free to link it alongside your screenshot collections in the OP to further show your features!

What difficulty was this on?

[ProtoBo]

What difficulty was this on?

Just normal. This mod is recommended for normal otherwise the bonuses the AI gets unbalances it too much.

[Cidalsleepwalker]

Just normal. This mod is recommended for normal otherwise the bonuses the AI gets unbalances it too much.

Great video, by the way. Your narration is interesting and easy to listen to.

[Aeimnestus]

Have done a few test battles via a campaign and here are my personal thoughts:
The length of battles is good, nice and long, rewarding the cycling of units and use of out flanking. I do think it would be nicer to see the casualties during the fighting be a bit higher, as it does seem strange to me that after 20 mins of brawling a unit of basic infantry wouldn't take at least 10% losses (in the battles I saw cases of 0 casualties in a hoplite unit when fighting 2 or 3 other hoplite units over 30 mins, normal difficulty).

10% losses wouldn't neessarily be the case, its quite possible units would fight for hours loosing only a handful of men, depending on various factors of course. Historically it is likely troops fought completely differently from the way portrayed in Rome2: men can only fight intensively for a short amount of time, so there would probably be several luls in the fighting where both sides would (locally) withdraw voluntarily a small distance to rest. So its not as if units would be locked in a continuous deathmatch for hours grinding one another down.

I recently found out the issue with certain units like hoplites: its not the units themselves that are off, but their defensive formations that have some crazy bonuses like +20 defense which breaks the intended killrate. That said, I have done some adjustments to the overall killrate, that will hopefully give some more realistic active combat casualties without changing the overall casualties much.

I think the frustration is that troops that have high enough morale that they won't break when surrounded are simply invincible, because you can't kill them to reduce their morale, so they will fight in place for the entire battle. Against an army with lots of units like this, e.g. hoplite forces in my case, you thus can't inflict enough army losses to reduce their morale either. The result is good, in that the final battle results aren't huge casualties on both sides after an indecisive battle, but it seems less satisfying as a gameplay experience as it feels like your efforts were futile.

I think my recommendation from this would be to increase the morale penalty for being surrounded / exhausted so that tier 2 units will break in these conditions even with almost all their troops still alive, except in special cases e.g. general nearby, strong overall army advantage. And possibly increase charge bonuses, as it does seem reasonable that a charge will always inflict moderate losses, especially in the rear, which I don't think it does so far at the moment.

Thanks for your thoughts! The problem with increasing morale shock even further is that the AI can't cope with that. Atm rear charges on exhausted units already should break any non-elite units most of the time: fatigue already carries a significant morale penalty. Unfortunately there is no extra penalty for being surrounded in the game.

The next version will have improved charge damage across the board. A succesful infantry charge should in most cases do some casualties now though some units by design just have a low charge bonus.

Cavalry will also get some further refinement, cavalry vs cavalry combat is somewhat bloodier and will see one side route faster.

[Cidalsleepwalker]

10% losses wouldn't neessarily be the case, its quite possible units would fight for hours loosing only a handful of men, depending on various factors of course. Historically it is likely troops fought completely differently from the way portrayed in Rome2: men can only fight intensively for a short amount of time, so there would probably be several luls in the fighting where both sides would (locally) withdraw voluntarily a small distance to rest. So its not as if units would be locked in a continuous deathmatch for hours grinding one another down.

I recently found out the issue with certain units like hoplites: its not the units themselves that are off, but their defensive formations that have some crazy bonuses like +20 defense which breaks the intended killrate. That said, I have done some adjustments to the overall killrate, that will hopefully give some more realistic active combat casualties without changing the overall casualties much.




Thanks for your thoughts! The problem with increasing morale shock even further is that the AI can't cope with that. Atm rear charges on exhausted units already should break any non-elite units most of the time: fatigue already carries a significant morale penalty. Unfortunately there is no extra penalty for being surrounded in the game.

The next version will have improved charge damage across the board. A succesful infantry charge should in most cases do some casualties now though some units by design just have a low charge bonus.

Cavalry will also get some further refinement, cavalry vs cavalry combat is somewhat bloodier and will see one side route faster.

Awesome. Since the little patch CA put out screwed everything up I can't play without this submod. Can't wait for the update!