Dexia Bank top give themselves a 30% raise...

[sabaku_no_gaara]

So there's this bank called Dexia, and it was saved with government money, and split up, Dexia is now the bad bank that has all the risky investments/capital and tasked with diminishing those. The bank is also operating under French and Belgian guarantees (mostly Belgian) meaning whenever something goes awry at the bank, the tax payers have to foot the bill.

Mostly the belgian taxpayers since yves leterme of the CD&V made a crappy deal back when he quickly wanted to save the bank due to ARCOPAR investments in the bank. (Arco was basicly the financial branch of the Christian column in this country, the Christian column are political: CD&V, healthcare: CM and worker union: ACV and peasant union, newspapers: de Standaard, gazet van Antwerpen etc...) anyway ARCO is their financial branch and the Christian column convinced it's members to invest in the super safe guaranteed arco participations which in turn ventured in "super safe" investments with Dexia which happily gambled everything away.


And now it turns out about 70 top members of the bank have just given themselves a nice salary raise of 30%


It's crazy, revolutions and blood in the streets have happened for less, what happened to "the people" that we keep bending over and taking it from behind from bankers and shady politicians all the while grumbling but not too loud...

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

Happened in Ireland and we had to suffer austerity to bail out banks and speculators.Belgium get ready for austerity.The banks should go down to gamblers anonymous and hire some real gamblers who have skill.They will not lose cash as much as these bankers who got the job not for being clever but for who they are related to and not what they know but who they know.

[King Gambrinus]

Mostly the belgian taxpayers since yves leterme of the CD&V made a crappy deal back when he quickly wanted to save the bank due to ARCOPAR investments in the bank. (Arco was basicly the financial branch of the Christian column in this country, the Christian column are political: CD&V, healthcare: CM and worker union: ACV and peasant union, newspapers: de Standaard, gazet van Antwerpen etc...) anyway ARCO is their financial branch and the Christian column convinced it's members to invest in the super safe guaranteed arco participations which in turn ventured in "super safe" investments with Dexia which happily gambled everything away.

Serves them right. The sooner we get rid of the Christians from the political scene the better. They are the reason Flanders was recked, they are the reason the Belgian federal government became an organ to fix the wreck they had made, and they are the reason that once it was fixed we had the 1970s split that wrecked our country.

And now it turns out about 70 top members of the bank have just given themselves a nice salary raise of 30%

It's crazy, revolutions and blood in the streets have happened for less, what happened to "the people" that we keep bending over and taking it from behind from bankers and shady politicians all the while grumbling but not too loud...

[/QUOTE]

Yeah, and who are the party of big business again? That's right, sabaku, your party, VOKA ( iwon't use their pseudonym). But yeah, you told me you were too busy worrying about your cadastral tax which is like 0% in Belgium anyway.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

VOKA is not a political party, besides, I'm not an NVA voter as they are too neo liberal despite them being the only ones to opose di rupo.


I'm more likely to vote open vld now that de croo is gone, I actually have fate in Gewendolyn Rutten

Also a lot of the ARCO participants are small timers who where advised by their union and the Christian bank to put their life savings in the arco participation because their money was "guaranteed" and they'd earn more than on the regular savings account, and everything was super duper safe.

These where simple ordinary joes screwed over by the very people they trusted to protect them from shady financial institutions or the shady part of the world.

how can you say: serves them right? Thousands of people will never see their money again since the deal the government made to protect the arco participants may be illegal

[King Gambrinus]

VOKA is not a political party,

No, but it has since emerged that the N-VA just represent their interests, only with a sprinkling of agressive social conservatism in order to gain votes from some flemish reactionaries.

besides, I'm not an NVA voter as they are too neo liberal despite them being the only ones to opose di rupo.

I'm more likely to vote open vld now that de croo is gone, I actually have fate in Gewendolyn Rutten

Well that's a political contradiction if I ever saw one. But I agree, Open Vld are impressive compared to CD&V and sp.a who both have no platform whatsoever...

Also a lot of the ARCO participants are small timers who where advised by their union and the Christian bank to put their life savings in the arco participation because their money was "guaranteed" and they'd earn more than on the regular savings account, and everything was super duper safe.

These where simple ordinary joes screwed over by the very people they trusted to protect them from shady financial institutions or the shady part of the world.

how can you say: serves them right? Thousands of people will never see their money again since the deal the government made to protect the arco participants may be illegal

Because they trusted the wrong people. Admit it, verzuiling/pillarisation in Belgium is the reason both our political and economic landscape is filled with clientelists, populists and whatever the the 3 stooges have become. Why is it we have career politician at hte head of private companies instead of experts? Out of principle I'm making sure I'm not voting for any of the traditional six parties. Unfortunately this only leaves me with the greens or worse, the parti populaire.

I'm willing to bet the people who lost their savings above will either keep voting CD&V or, as many have done, keep voting in the N-VA and destroy the country. So do I have sympathy with them? No. Just like N-VA have no sympathy for PS voters. Two can play that game.

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

The sooner we get rid of the Christians from the political scene the better.

Why You no like Christians.

[King Gambrinus]

Why You no like Christians.

As long as they keep religion out of politics I'm ok with Christians.

As sabaku alluded to though I am referring to the political pillar. Wiki pilarisation.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

The Christian pillar is too entwined in society and has run the country for too long it's the most entwined one of the three pillars

check this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pillarisation#Belgium

It lead to a lot of problems like the Dexia/arcopar debacle

[sabaku_no_gaara]

Well, it seems they won't be getting their salary raise as it sparked outrage in the media and politics. Dexia decided not to go through with the salary raise for the 70 top people

[John ''True Grit'' Wayne]

I do not even know how Belgium exists.France or Germany or Holland should have swallowed them up in the 18th century.
I think existing is success so do not worry about debt.We are all prisoners of the elite bankers.

[King Gambrinus]

I do not even know how Belgium exists.France or Germany or Holland should have swallowed them up in the 18th century.

Well it does. Deal with it.

In ethnic terms we are more similar to the Dutch for sure, even Walloons. Caesar said a belgian was neither a Gaul nor Germanic and have their origins from Great Britain. Here's a map as to where belgians were according to the romans :



We seperated from the Netherlands because we refused to be dominated by Hollander centralism during that time. As you can see, it still persists as both Northerners and Southerners of Netherlands do not feel any particular affiliation to the way Holland has been given preferential treatment over others. The South itself used to be strongly belgicist until the Hollanders engaged in cultural genocide (similar to what the french did in Wallonia).

Anyway, that was just the standard argument for Belgium existing. Its way older than the USA anyway

[sumskilz]

Anyway, that was just the standard argument for Belgium existing. Its way older than the USA anyway

1776 was actually before 1830

[Phier]

1776 was actually before 1830

[Stavroforos]

Well it does. Deal with it.

In ethnic terms we are more similar to the Dutch for sure, even Walloons. Caesar said a belgian was neither a Gaul nor Germanic and have their origins from Great Britain. Here's a map as to where belgians were according to the romans :



We seperated from the Netherlands because we refused to be dominated by Hollander centralism during that time. As you can see, it still persists as both Northerners and Southerners of Netherlands do not feel any particular affiliation to the way Holland has been given preferential treatment over others. The South itself used to be strongly belgicist until the Hollanders engaged in cultural genocide (similar to what the french did in Wallonia).

Anyway, that was just the standard argument for Belgium existing. Its way older than the USA anyway

What does something a Roman said more than 2000 years ago have anything to do with the present? And how is Belgium older than the USA?

[King Gambrinus]

What does something a Roman said more than 2000 years ago have anything to do with the present? And how is Belgium older than the USA?

Idea of Belgica dates from Antiquity, that's the point.

Caesar's analysis of a Belgian is neither Gaul nor Germanic.

[sumskilz]

Idea of Belgica dates from Antiquity, that's the point.

Caesar's analysis of a Belgian is neither Gaul nor Germanic.

It just became a geographic name though, but I think people tend to assume there's a lineage or something. Recently a study of some ancient Etruscan DNA was published. Turns out their closest living relatives are in Anatolia not Tuscany. Probably the Belgae aren't responsible for Dexia.

[Jom]

I do not even know how Belgium exists.France or Germany or Holland should have swallowed them up in the 18th century.
I think existing is success so do not worry about debt.We are all prisoners of the elite bankers.

France did in 1794 and the Netherlands controlled Belgium from 1815 after the Congress of Vienna created the United Kingdom of the Netherlands, but the Belgian revolution in 1830 ended that brief period of rule. And Germany didn't exist in the 18th century. So, the reason Belgium exists is because a Belgian national identity existed enough to fight for independence, with a lot of that identity stemming from being Catholic versus the Protestant Dutch.

[King Gambrinus]

that identity stemming from being Catholic versus the Protestant Dutch.

This myth needs to be debunked, as Liege as well as most of Wallonia was already approaching severe levels of anti-catholicism (because they had been under direct catholic rule for centuries) and was adhering to Rogier-style liberalism/republicanism. While the Spanish Netherlands was imposed Catholicism - hence why it developed a different identity or ethnos to the independent north - I think the main reason for the Belgian revolution was the idea that had started with the Brabant Revolution in 1789 ie a rejection of Hapsburg absolutism, a willingness for the Austrian Netherlands to become just South Netherlands or even join up with the Hollanders (United Provinces supported Brabant revolutionaries). For them the Kingdom of the Netherlands (ex-UP) was just the replacement oppressor of the Hapsburgs.

Because the United Provinces had become a dangerous monarchist state, with a parliament that had very little Belgian representation in their ranks, the idea of being joined to the hip with them politically after several hundred years apart was absurd and clearly the work of people who knew little about the area. In fact if it weren't for international intervention during 1830-31 we probably wouldn't have our monarchy and we'd have also acquired Limburg and North Brabant (because, due to more present catholicism, and this is where you make a valid point Jom, they are ethnically more similar to Flemish - but language was an important part too). The belgian revolutionaries were by and large republican in spirit though.

To sum up, the Belgian-Dutch identity is not like the Bosnian-Serb where religion defined what nationality you were.

[Stavroforos]

Great, and that was valid (maybe) 2000 years ago. In any case, the idea of Belgica may be old, but the state of the United States of America is older than the state of Belgium.

What does your nationalist rant have to do with Dexia, btw?

[King Gambrinus]

Great, and that was valid (maybe) 2000 years ago. In any case, the idea of Belgica may be old, but the state of the United States of America is older than the state of Belgium.

What does your nationalist rant have to do with Dexia, btw?

Countering Belgian-haters is always fun.

Like, for example, the idea that the USA is older than Belgium both as a concept Belgica and as a historical state (Spanish Netherlands, Burgundian State) is laughable.

I was simply making a point about Jom's post. Unlike you when you took offence over me saying Greek nationality was based on religion, I did not have any issue with Jom's post. It is an easy mistake and it is partly true when talking about the belgian ethnos that formed circa 1830.

EDIT : Also jom's point about Belgians being historically catholic brings us back to our pillarisation, a phenomenon also present in the Netherlands. So as you can see we do share some things.