Female Commander Units

**TWEnthusiast** · January 17, 2014, 02:53 AM

Hey guys -new guy here.

First of all, a BIG thank you to the mod team! You guys ROCK for making this awesome mod! I can't decide whether to bite the bullet and download the Beta or wait until release. Hehe.

One question though, I saw that epic screenshot of Ma Chao on his horse -man that is awesomeness, are you guys going to include any female commander units in the final game?

Maybe not to the degree that Kessen II did...with made up characters Yue Jin and Himeko?

Man I would LOVE to see Xing Cai in game!

Keep up the GREAT work guys!!!

**Seether** · January 17, 2014, 10:50 AM

First off, welcome to the forum and thank you for supporting our mod! Whatever you want to do is up to you, however the version 1 release probably won't be for a long time. The beta is perfectly playable although, since it is a beta, there are bugs, errors, and it is obviously not a finished or polished product.

I highly doubt that there will be female commanders incorporated in the mod. The biggest reason is that this mod is aiming for historical accuracy (with some creative license taken). In historical records from the time, there is no indication that there were ever any female military commanders. The common arguments to this are Zhu Rong and Sun Ren (Shangxiang). However, Zhu Rong was more than likely a work of fiction, and Sun Ren, despite having more than a hundred armed female servants, records indicate that she never once fought in a battle or otherwise took to the battlefield. Xing Cai and the other females in Dynasty Warriors, such as Diao Chan and Zhen Ji, were most certainly not warriors or military commanders; they were consorts to warlords and/or emperors. Another issue is in regard to how the M2TW engine works and engine limitations. If a character is a named character (leader, heir, general, captain) then the engine dictates that they have to be males. Those characters can all marry, but they can only marry females. So family trees and those type of dynamics would not work if female generals were included.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 12, 2014, 03:24 PM

I dont know about that , there are a lot of female generals in Romance of the three kingdoms

Here is a list of them

http://kongming.net/novel/hanzi/Women

although some are fictional , some could be added as characters

**Seether** · February 12, 2014, 05:18 PM

That list is not of "a lot of female generals," it is only a list of female character found in the novel. Out of that entire list of women, a grand total of 1 were military commanders: Zhu Rong, and she was fictional. As I said in my above post: "In historical records from the time, there is no indication that there were ever any female military commanders." Whether they were fictional or not isn't really the question, it is whether any historical women were in any way, shape, or form military commanders, to which all of them were not.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 12, 2014, 08:27 PM

so, what is the bitg deal if we add female generals or leaders, or atleast female assassings or princesses or female units in general

**Seether** · February 12, 2014, 09:38 PM

Because they're not historical by any means (except princesses are already in the mod). If someone wants to make a sub mod with such things, then they're more than welcome to.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 13, 2014, 08:43 AM

so this is an analy historical mod then

**Seether** · February 13, 2014, 09:39 AM

While some liberties are taken, this mod is aiming to be historical. In fact, that is a huge reason as to the unit roster overhaul. The armors in the original RTW mod were from the Zhou, Qin, and Song dynasties, with very few (if any) from the Eastern Han or Three Kingdoms.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 13, 2014, 11:25 AM

well if there will not be female generals, i still have not seen female princesses even with the latest patch , what about making femals more common like emasaries or assassins, or is this mod going to stick closely to the male dominant world ?

**Seether** · February 13, 2014, 12:31 PM

In the upcoming patch there are a few princesses that come of age within the first 2 years (ie: Nanyang and Yuan Clan), then after that it is mostly based on how many female children your ruling family has. The main problem with adding females to family trees is that accurate records on their ages, and even names, are hard to come by. For example, to this day Sun Shangxiang's real name is still debated, as she had been called both Sun Ren and Sun Lin. And as far as I know, females were not used as either emissaries or assassins during the Three Kingdoms era; which was very much a male-dominated society at that time.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 13, 2014, 03:25 PM

so they are basically no use for them so tyhen you should not include them at all they seem pretty useless

**Seether** · February 13, 2014, 03:31 PM

No. We're not going to completely remove them simply because they aren't taking on roles that you want.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 13, 2014, 06:12 PM

so they are only going to appear as an occasional princess?

**Seether** · February 13, 2014, 06:15 PM

As princesses and as special ancillaries, such as Da Qiao, Xiao Qiao, and several other famous women.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 13, 2014, 08:54 PM

be ancillaries i would not consider them as real charaters in the sense of what the OP is suggesting, also i dont know if there were princesses in china at the time, maybe they were called something else i dont know

**Yayattasa** · February 13, 2014, 09:06 PM

Several Chinese court women were offered as wifes to nomad warlords from several ethnicities. It definitely happened.

**Sigmar Heldenhamer** · February 14, 2014, 09:23 AM

yeah i know but is it worth only having a couple of factions that have an option to have princesses, maybe i don't know but IMO i don't consider ancillaries as actual characters, which i think the OP was asking

**Seether** · February 14, 2014, 10:02 AM

Who said only a couple factions have the option to have princesses? What I said was: "In the upcoming patch there are a few princesses that come of age within the first 2 years (ie: Nanyang and Yuan Clan), then after that it is mostly based on how many female children your ruling family has."