I need a brief tutorial for Byzantine Emire.

[KostasHBK]

So, I've played with factions like the Holy Roman Empire and the Teutonic order, England and others in H/H and I've manged it very well but every time I try to play with the Byzantine Empire I always fail in some point. I start realy well by expanding in the east and I destroy Venice in the first 20-30 turns. I don't keep many troops in Greece and I have 2-3 stacks of army when I reach Antioch. Then, almost every time both my usual allies, the Hungarians and the Holy Roman Empire betrait me when I'm in war with the Turks and expanding only to the East. In a few turns I go bankrupt while I'm in war in all of my fronts.
Clearly I do somethink wrong.

[Dekhatres]

So, I've played with factions like the Holy Roman Empire and the Teutonic order, England and others in H/H and I've manged it very well but every time I try to play with the Byzantine Empire I always fail in some point. I start realy well by expanding in the east and I destroy Venice in the first 20-30 turns. I don't keep many troops in Greece and I have 2-3 stacks of army when I reach Antioch. Then, almost every time both my usual allies, the Hungarians and the Holy Roman Empire betrait me when I'm in war with the Turks and expanding only to the East. In a few turns I go bankrupt while I'm in war in all of my fronts.
Clearly I do somethink wrong.

perhaps you should not expand that much in Europe, try to stop at Ragusa maybe, about allys betraying i think that if you keep your borders strong it is very unlikely that they will betray you, i played VH and Hungary never betrayed me so far, use more diplomacy, keep a diplomat with your armies, when you'r crushing a faction ask money from them every turn in exchange for peace, next turn attack again destory their army or conquer one region than ask for peace and money again and so on every turn, you can get like 10k denars every turn this way, it dosent always work however and you obviously have to keep wining against them, also consider the option to make them your vassals, they might turn to be very useful in defending the corners of your empire and they also pay you a tribute, in my opinion your big mistake is that you get too many neighborhoods xD, if you really want that much to expand in Europe start with Sicily and stop at Rome or Bologna, than turtle in Europe and take on the east, good luck

[❋ Flavius Belisarius ❋]

the very first turns:
_Created an alliance with Turks
_Take all the rebel cities (in greece) and rush until Sofia ( you have to take the city before the Hungarians)= Sofia will be the north end of your empire
==> send one army to sofia and another one to take back all greek rebel setlement
_created an allaince with the Hungarian if you want.
_ wait some turns to developpe your lands and gather your troops.

Italian campagn:
_send two army to simultaneously to assault Sicily and the South of Italy.
_there'is a huge probability that by your arrival, Sicilian already extend in North Africa, don't followed them in North Africa, do not follow them in Africa, but if you want take Corsican and Sardinia ==> They will be the west end of your empire
_TAKE BACK ROME
==>Attack(Affect) the papacy then when your Roman empire take back Rome you can expand to Venice
==> End of the Italian campaign (you juste have to manage to take little by little Italy)

Seljukides campaign:
_By the end of the campaign of Italy, Turks will have become powerful.
_ BUT You are very easily going to be able to beat them thanks to the Mongolian arrival
_Do not declare the war to Turks as long as they did not enter conflict with the Mongolian
_develop your new lands in Italy
_When their (Turcs) territories in the East will be taken by the Mongolian, they will send every them force in the East, that gives you an open fields to an invasion by the West
_Make an alliance with the Mongolian
_Finally the empire of Turks is going to be destroyed by your amries on the West and those of the Mongolian on the East

Reconstitute the Roman Empire:
_At the moment, you are rich enough and powerful to conquered the way you want the former roman lands (In Europe and Africa).
_Generally, I buy from Egyptians their lands in North Africa

[InsaneAbacus]

the very first turns:
_Created an alliance with Turks
_Take all the rebel cities (in greece) and rush until Sofia ( you have to take the city before the Hungarians)= Sofia will be the north end of your empire
==> send one army to sofia and another one to take back all greek rebel setlement
_created an allaince with the Hungarian if you want.
_ wait some turns to developpe your lands and gather your troops.

Italian campagn:
_send two army to simultaneously to assault Sicily and the South of Italy.
_there'is a huge probability that by your arrival, Sicilian already extend in North Africa, don't followed them in North Africa, do not follow them in Africa, but if you want take Corsican and Sardinia ==> They will be the west end of your empire
_TAKE BACK ROME
==>Attack(Affect) the papacy then when your Roman empire take back Rome you can expand to Venice
==> End of the Italian campaign (you juste have to manage to take little by little Italy)

Seljukides campaign:
_By the end of the campaign of Italy, Turks will have become powerful.
_ BUT You are very easily going to be able to beat them thanks to the Mongolian arrival
_Do not declare the war to Turks as long as they did not enter conflict with the Mongolian
_develop your new lands in Italy
_When their (Turcs) territories in the East will be taken by the Mongolian, they will send every them force in the East, that gives you an open fields to an invasion by the West
_Make an alliance with the Mongolian
_Finally the empire of Turks is going to be destroyed by your amries on the West and those of the Mongolian on the East

Reconstitute the Roman Empire:
_At the moment, you are rich enough and powerful to conquered the way you want the former roman lands (In Europe and Africa).
_Generally, I buy from Egyptians their lands in North Africa

Sounds a lot like the "Justinian restoration" of the roman empire

[Strengelicher]

So, I've played with factions like the Holy Roman Empire and the Teutonic order, England and others in H/H and I've manged it very well but every time I try to play with the Byzantine Empire I always fail in some point. I start realy well by expanding in the east and I destroy Venice in the first 20-30 turns. I don't keep many troops in Greece and I have 2-3 stacks of army when I reach Antioch. Then, almost every time both my usual allies, the Hungarians and the Holy Roman Empire betrait me when I'm in war with the Turks and expanding only to the East. In a few turns I go bankrupt while I'm in war in all of my fronts.
Clearly I do somethink wrong.

Early or late campaign?

[Dekhatres]

Early or late campaign?

i think is the early campaign since he says he destroy venice in 20-30 turns, in late campaign you need 20-30 turns only to get the empire back in shape, or i am just probably bad idk

[InsaneAbacus]

it's a general guide, I guess. Yes in late you might need some more time, but it's also possible to be faster.

[Duck of Death]

Aye, in late... the Romans are in rough scattered shape. Ive always found it takes at least 30 turns to really get a solid hold on Greece and west Turkey.
Usually, by turn 50ish, Im sending one strong army into eastern Turkey and one into southern Italy, starting with Sicily.

The best start Ive had... I had all of Turkey, Greece (with the Sofia boundry) and Italy by turn 85ish and was ready to send strong armies into the holy lands and N.Africa.
By turn 200, I had recreated the Empire (at its height)... minus Genoa, northern France, England and that tiny island east of Spain (thats where I kept the Pope sequestered

But, Genoa and Papal States were my vassals so...

Havent played that save in a couple months but, the darn French-Brits are the monkey in my wrench so far.

[InsaneAbacus]

Aye, in late... the Romans are in rough scattered shape. Ive always found it takes at least 30 turns to really get a solid hold on Greece and west Turkey.
Usually, by turn 50ish, Im sending one strong army into eastern Turkey and one into southern Italy, starting with Sicily.

The best start Ive had... I had all of Turkey, Greece (with the Sofia boundry) and Italy by turn 85ish and was ready to send strong armies into the holy lands and N.Africa.
By turn 200, I had recreated the Empire (at its height)... minus Genoa, northern France, England and that tiny island east of Spain (thats where I kept the Pope sequestered

But, Genoa and Papal States were my vassals so...

Havent played that save in a couple months but, the darn French-Brits are the monkey in my wrench so far.

This tiny Island is Mallorca (Quite famous in GB, Germany and Austria)

[Dekhatres]

Aye, in late... the Romans are in rough scattered shape. Ive always found it takes at least 30 turns to really get a solid hold on Greece and west Turkey.
Usually, by turn 50ish, Im sending one strong army into eastern Turkey and one into southern Italy, starting with Sicily.

The best start Ive had... I had all of Turkey, Greece (with the Sofia boundry) and Italy by turn 85ish and was ready to send strong armies into the holy lands and N.Africa.
By turn 200, I had recreated the Empire (at its height)... minus Genoa, northern France, England and that tiny island east of Spain (thats where I kept the Pope sequestered

But, Genoa and Papal States were my vassals so...

Havent played that save in a couple months but, the darn French-Brits are the monkey in my wrench so far.

in my campaign i also wanted to have Genoa as vassal but they didnt accept and just kept annoying me with their fleet so i had to level their litle kingdom

[UndrState]

But, Genoa and Papal States were my vassals so...

Never thought about vassaling the Papal States - any tougher than others to vassalize?

[Duck of Death]

Never thought about vassaling the Papal States - any tougher than others to vassalize?

I havent found them to be harder to make a vassal.
The only potential problem with having multiple vassals is, you have to keep them away from eachother. Otherwise you risk them fighting and you are forced to lose one of their allegiences.

[Nzg]

I just set up a late campaign and I've seen Byzzies, doesn't look optimistic

[T r a n c e]

As long as you have enough florins to buy their will, i see no problem vassaling any faction you're at war with (mentioning that your money will return the next turn).

[UndrState]

LOL but what's it like having the Pope as your altar boy?

[flyingcat]

Expand in all directions,as fast as possible.Be at war with every neighbour,and defeat every one of them.
That's the way I play Byz in late campaign.
Two Athanatoi,which is unstoppable,with some scoutatoi and militias+1/2 Javelinmen could crush almost any Turkish/Egyptian armies(numerically equivalent) on the open field.
Six Athanatois with mercenaries and several horsearchers,could crush western knights and footmen.

FL/Heir with Scoutatoi go east.Other generals with HA go west.Hire as much militias as possible.When not confident about battle,hire mercenaries.Dread,catch and kill prisoners.
with 50 turns,it's not hard to conquer Turkey,most of Egypt,Greece,most of Hungary,Sicily,Venice and the Papal States.
You might face the Holy Roman Emperor under the walls of Vienna at turn 50,it's fun to slay his knights.

[Nikolaj-11]

You say you take out Venice early and isn't that the problem?

I think both the HRE and Hungary are compelled to take Venice since it is one of the largets cities in the world, and when you take it they won't be excommunicated for trying (since the Byzantine aren't Catholic).

[Harakan]

i would start the same way as ❋ Flavius Belisarius ❋ suggested.

but then i would not try to conquer italy or other areas, but rather just send some armies to single cities and sack them. Venice is a target of course, but also jerusalem, antiochia, alexandria and cairo. but also rome genoa and marseille. this will help you to keep enough money to go on with that war, you will inevitably have to fight at all borders.