Should prisoners pay for their stay in prison?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

In the Netherlands the secretary of state of justice and safety Fred Steeven proposed a bill that would make prisoners pay 16€ a day for their stay in prison over a maximum period of 2 years and minister of Safety and justice Ivo Opstelten proposed to make prisoners contribute in the costs of detection, trial and confinement. This should earn the government about 65 million € per year.


But the Dutch union of Lawbreakers claims this is in conflict with European law which states that member states are to pay for the stay and medical treatment, the union also claims this won't contribute to safety.

http://www.demorgen.be/dm/nl/990/Bui...celstraf.dhtml




I think this makes sense, I always wondered why we don't charge hotel fees for the stay and the food etc... I mean these guys cost money, which comes from our taxes, this should be implemented all over the EU and I think 16 € is too little an amount. I think they should make a cost effectiveness calculation in prisons to see what each prisoner costs in terms of food, medical care, building maintenance, guards salaries and insurance and social contributions etc.., electricity and then charge them an amount that allows a small profit.

I mean if it wasn't for criminals we wouldn't have to spend millions on this sector which requires infrastructure and personnel so why not make them useful.


Also my god Netherlands why do you have a union of lawbreakers?

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

This is a good idea, it would help prevent homeless people from doing crimes simply to get a free stay in jail as well as bring in a lot of cash.

[The Unknown General]

This is a good idea, it would help prevent homeless people from doing crimes simply to get a free stay in jail as well as bring in a lot of cash.

Because prisons are akin to five star resorts Why not just gather up everyone thats not in the one percent and send them to labor camps, in order to get free labor from the plebs.

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

Because prisons are akin to five star resorts Why not just gather up everyone thats not in the one percent and send them to labor camps, in order to get free labor from the plebs.

Here in the states they're better than dying and starving in the cold.

[The Unknown General]

Here in the states they're better than dying and starving in the cold.

Maybe if Conservatives didn't want to punish people because they're poor, there would be more homeless shelters or free housing instead of people having no alternative than prison.

[xcorps]

Maybe if Conservatives didn't want to punish people because they're poor, there would be more homeless shelters or free housing instead of people having no alternative than prison.

Lol. Got any numbers that support your statement that homeless people make up any portion of the prison population? Talk about grasping for straws, my god man.

Drugs crimes are the prime mover. Not poor peeple stealing bredz.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[Earl Dibbles Jr]

Maybe if Conservatives didn't want to punish people because they're poor, there would be more homeless shelters or free housing instead of people having no alternative than prison.

Oh lord you don't really know what you're talking about, do you?

I always get a good chuckle when people blame Conservatives for poor people starving. You do realize that a large percentage of Conservatives are poor Southerners?

There is tons of free housing available and the only way that you could be homeless is if you had really and I mean realllllllyyyy bad luck, were extremely lazy, or had mental issues that can't be fixed. You also seem to conveniently forget that houses and soup kitchens cannot simply materialize out of thin air, they require money while our government cannot continue to overspend on programs that aren't completely necessary ($17 trillion dollar debt and rising woohoo!)

[Slydessertfox]

This is a good idea, it would help prevent homeless people from doing crimes simply to get a free stay in jail as well as bring in a lot of cash.

You mean that very, very, very, very, very, small minority of people in prison? Too small to even fuss about?

It's a really bad idea because it mean that everyone who leave prison is going to be in massive debt.

Turning your life around after prison isn't easy even from the beginning. If you add a massive debt to the burden, then you pretty much guarantee that criminals will stay away from the legal economy.

^This guy has the right idea.

[SLN445]

This is a good idea, it would help prevent homeless people from doing crimes simply to get a free stay in jail as well as bring in a lot of cash.

Because someone whos already broke is going to care about becoming even more broke

[AqD]

What if they have nothing to pay?

[sabaku_no_gaara]

What if they have nothing to pay?

Charge their relatives, everyone has a father or a mother or a sibling or offspring or a partner.

I mean, you can inherit debts in Belgium for instance* so why not make your relatives pay for you, it would motivate them to keep you in check.




*

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

http://www.belgium.be/nl/belastingen/nalatenschap/

Basicly when someone dies you have 3 options:

- You accept the inheritance of this person as is, meaning that if this person had more debts than possessions, you will have to pay these debts

- You refuse the inheritance: in which case the inheritance is offered to all other relatives and if they also refuse the state can choose to either accept or refuse the inheritance (the state inherits from those who die and have no heirs)

- You accept the inheritance but under privilege of inventory, meaning first you make an inventory ow all debts and possessions and the share that is to be divided amongst all heirs and the taxes you have to pay on your inheritance and you see what your cut/loss will be and then either refuse or accept the debt.

(I once met a young couple of whom the guy inherited 3 apartments from his grandparents and had to sell them all quickly because he couldn't pay the inheritance tax and the property tax)

[AqD]

Charge their relatives, everyone has a father or a mother or a sibling or offspring or a partner.

I mean, you can inherit debts in Belgium for instance* so why not make your relatives pay for you, it would motivate them to keep you in check.

That's unfair. Nobody should be responsible for others' crimes, no matter whom they are. I'd definitely NOT pay for my families if they're sent to prison due to real crimes.


So what about those who cannot pay and have no families willing to pay for them?


.

This makes no sense. Imprisonment is not a service for the imprisoned, it's a service to society by the state. That's why it's paid via taxes. We want those people behind bars! If you want to argue from a monetary point of view you could easily transform all prison sentences into a fines and social work and safe all costs for imprisonment entirely. We don't do that for some reason so we obviously prefer to pay taxes for prisons.

But I don't them behind bars. I don't want to waste our tax money on those losers; Paying for a bullet or a trip to shark pool is okay though.

[sabaku_no_gaara]

That's unfair. Nobody should be responsible for others' crimes, no matter whom they are. I'd definitely NOT pay for my families if they're sent to prison due to real crimes.


So what about those who cannot pay and have no families willing to pay for them?


.


But I don't them behind bars. I don't want to waste our tax money on those losers; Paying for a bullet or a trip to shark pool is okay though.

deduct it from their salary or their unemployment benefits after they are released


I mean take Belgium for instance, My fiancé took her legally allowed paid vacation days (amounting to 3 weeks of 1 month) but she didn't realise that due to her status being "labourer" and not "service" her salary for the paid vacation days was only paid for 5 days to her and the rest of the days she took will be added to her "double vacation fee" unlike where had she had the service status (In Belgium there's a difference where manual jobs are considered labour status and everything else is considered service status and each status comes with it's downsides and advantages) her days would simply have been paid right now in her first pay check instead of being added onto their "double vacation fee" which is paid once a year (you have to pay this back if you don't take vacation)

So we are having a harsh month, which is frustrating because she paid too much in taxes last year and should receive a refund of 1500€, something she's been waiting for for a long time now. Yesterday she called Ergo (the institution handling her taxes and pension saving) and there they said lots of people are waiting including them, but the money for paying back people has dried out. (Which is believable, in 2012 the government delayed repaying of taxes as a 1 time measure to fix the budget and receive some extra interests on the savings account where that money is parked)

If I then have to read about measures like the one in the OP, I can't believe we haven't universally passed these measures everywhere, It's not like Europe is in a national debt crisis or anything...

[Mangalore]

...
But I don't them behind bars. I don't want to waste our tax money on those losers; Paying for a bullet or a trip to shark pool is okay though.

So what? None gives a what you want. You have the legal process where you can try to convince enough people of the legislative and judiciary to pass such a law. If it fails, obviously we as a society don't want your solution or put limits in place to prevent such ridiculous abuse of our ideals. I don't always get what I want in our society either.

Alternatively emigrate to country which suits better your sense of justice, Saudi Arabia for example.




As an alternative idea: How about soldiers start paying for their own bullets. I see no reason why _I_ _personally_ should pay for the frivolous adventures of some adrenaline junkies...

I also think people should have to pay the expenses for a firefighter operation themselves when my house isn't involved.

*/careful, sarcasm*

[AqD]

So what? None gives a what you want. You have the legal process where you can try to convince enough people of the legislative and judiciary to pass such a law. If it fails, obviously we as a society don't want your solution or put limits in place to prevent such ridiculous abuse of our ideals. I don't always get what I want in our society either.

Why? Are you a potential criminal?

If not, is it not much better to live in a society with far less crimes because all criminals would disappear the first time they're caught, and with more tax money allocated for your health care and other useful things?

You are aware that is a circular argument right? That people cannot do something if they are not given the chance.

Not our problem. Why should regular people risk their safety in order to giving criminals a second chance?

If you actually go and ask whether people would love to be neighbors or boss or colleague of some serious murderers, rapists or thieves, most of them would tell you NO. They just don't want to be the tough and cruel ones who imprison criminals forever or send criminals to hell.

It's one of the reasons people can get out earlier if they show good behaviour, they show that they are willing to get back into society.

They can always pretend to show good behavior.

What kind of bad behavior could a cartel leader or fraud criminal possibly show in prison?

[YukonTrooper]

What if they have nothing to pay?

They go back to a life of crime more easily.

[Gromovnik]

Medieval justice FTW!

[Mhaedros]

I think it's a great idea, it's ridiculous that criminals should live and eat for free.

[Condottiere 40K]

I thought they did that already in South American jails; escort services are cheaper though, and the cuisine may not be quite up to standard.

[Adar]

It's a really bad idea because it mean that everyone who leave prison is going to be in massive debt.

Turning your life around after prison isn't easy even from the beginning. If you add a massive debt to the burden, then you pretty much guarantee that criminals will stay away from the legal economy.