A small proposal

**Oznerol** · January 13, 2014, 09:50 AM

I don't know if I'm able to do this, but... Is something I have think since the begining, but never dared to do a proposal. It's not very noteworthy, or important, but I think is ever overlooked.

Something that I think we lack in realism concerns the children and everything related. As you know children mortality was quite high in Middle Ages, and also in Westeros, huntings accidentes, children diseases and plagues decimated many times the nobility offspring. Also, pregnancy could be improved greatly. My suggestions, humble and small:

-Children should have a slight, but existing, chance of dying every year, until they reach manhood, or 'flower', in middle ages, when the teenage years have been reached, the chances of dying were quite low, so from 1 to 13-4 years they could have a 5/20 chance of dying (fiting if we think maybe 20-25% of children died before adulthood). That could be avoided, or slightened, by a maester's presence (+1, Grand Maester +2).

-Pregnancy: Teen mothers should be more likable to have miscarriages, as they are still too young, such, marrying a child bride would have it's risk, for a Lord should wait, before bedding his teen wife, because there is more danger, as not even the waist bones are entirely grown. But that doesn't mean that if a King or Lord are eager to have children they could try mindless of the risk. Elder mothers on the other hands should too! So we have more chances of miscarriages between 13-16 years, and +30.
--->Miscarriages lead me to the following point: Miscarriages are a traumatic experience, and there is an existing chance of becoming barren, or increasing the danger in the next pregnancy, so after an abortion, should be a chance, maybe 4/20, of the wife turning barren, or another that the next year should be more likely to be a risky pregnancy (more chance to stillborn babies or death of the mother).

-However, there are certain individuals that are barren and infertile, such, when a char reaches manhood a roll is done, with a slight chance of the character being barren, for example that could lead in infertile marriages, that were fruitful political alliances, and could create grudges and such.

Thus, we could have some insight into children and wifes, that are somewhat neglected, and bring more realism to the game, because pregnancy or childhood weren't so easy in settings like this. Also could bring into unexpected consequences, the King's offspring dying, extinction of Lordly families, infertile marriages, dead wifes...

Birth Rolls
One per year
1-5: Complications
-Secondary roll
1-9: child dies
10-14: child and mother die
15-19: mother dies, child lives
20: Catastrophic failure (see below)
--Tertiary Roll
1-8: Child dies, mother barren
9-15: Mother dies, child has defect (dwarfism, useless limb, etc)
16-20: Child has defect, mother barren

6-20: Successful birth

Child Deaths
One roll every five years until age 15 for a total of three opportunities of death:

1-3: Death
4-20: Life

Gifted Rolls
Roll 1/50 for every child born. Gifted children will not have any death rolls for their childhood as well as the player's choice of one of the following skills:

1. One extra trait point at every level

2. Warg

3. Greenseer

4. A request for something different, mod approved.

**Lord Dread** · January 13, 2014, 10:04 AM

As much as I appreciate realism, I fear it would rather cause the RP getting stagnate or, even more worse, Houses with few family members, getting extincted just because of unlucky rolls, undepending on the ammount of RP. I guess nobody is willing to have this risk.

**Pontifex Maximus** · January 13, 2014, 10:10 AM

100% support. We need these types of rolls done yearly, and they wont take long. We also need to think about how rolls for things like becoming a warg is done. The way I see it only about 50-75% of children should be surviving to adulthood across the board, but possibly less for individuals

**Pinkerton** · January 13, 2014, 10:14 AM

SupportNeeds a bit of polish but's great

**Zethira** · January 13, 2014, 10:19 AM

Well... When it comes to death during childbirth we're already stretching realism pretty thin as it is. The smallfolk have a 60% chance of survival without Maester or Physician, and the child 50%. Now, it's been a while since i ran the numbers on something, but the odds for a smallfolk couple to have two living offspring is like 15%, or 9% if the mother survives the second birth. I don't need Biology classes to tell me there's no way those numbers create a sustainable population over the span of multiple generations. And levies are already regenerating using lolmagic.

Adding the chance to become barren... Yes, it could be done, but as a birth defect roll, like being born a dwarf or something. Maybe 1/50 or so and then roll on a table to see what kind of birth defect the kid's born with, but nothing that would alter the birth rolls even further.

**Oznerol** · January 13, 2014, 10:19 AM

Thanks Pontifex!
There should be a risk, if not ladies are just babies' factories. Labour was trully hard in settings like this, and such was pregnancy (even today brings a certain danger to the mother and child, with our modern healthcare!). I think that as death rolls, ladies +35 years old should have roll, to tell if they turn menopausal.
They are little more rolls and work for the mods, but I don't think it would be such a burden. Instead we would win a huge amount of realism. Think for example, that Lord 'X' marries Lady 'C', but they are a fruitless marriage: Such if there is a Lady "B", sister to Lord "X" that has married Lord "A" she could claim the inheritance, and such we would bring another dimension to dynastic conflicts and fights for inheritances!

And yes, Pinkerton, it's indeed unpolished, it's something that I even I have think about for a while never tried to write down. But thanks.

Deformities and illness should be a chance, however that would be too much work for the mods, and that is something rpyers should decide, for example, I decided Maegor Waters to born with a vestigial twin, Pontifex decided to have the chance to have dwarf children, etc, etc...
And more than often the whole offspring of many rpyers here are kinda perfect, somewhat somehow, fair, strong, or smart, there should be more variety, but that is just my taste!

**Pontifex Maximus** · January 13, 2014, 10:24 AM

Even if a roll was done and a "complicated pregnancy" resulted causing something like 3 years of infertility or something like that, something to limit the more or less 95% success rate of births done.

**Xion** · January 13, 2014, 10:26 AM

Against, as like what LD said, this could lead to players losing entire houses solely because of bad rolls, regardless of any other circumstance. But I do think the dwarf/warg/Targaryen fire immunity/etc. rolls should be added.

**Zethira** · January 13, 2014, 10:25 AM

Yeah, i mean if you're rolling a d50 for deformities and illnesses you can use that same dice roll for the wargs and special powers too. 1/50 for a special power, 50/50 for a defect meaning 96% chance of nothing, and then the attached table for powers or defects (both including an option of 'roll an additional time on this table') to see what the child is born with.

**Pontifex Maximus** · January 13, 2014, 10:36 AM

Originally Posted by Zethira

Yeah, i mean if you're rolling a d50 for deformities and illnesses you can use that same dice roll for the wargs and special powers too. 1/50 for a special power, 50/50 for a defect meaning 96% chance of nothing, and then the attached table for powers or defects (both including an option of 'roll an additional time on this table') to see what the child is born with.

I can try to make a table for that

**Zethira** · January 13, 2014, 10:46 AM

Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus

I can try to make a table for that

That would be great

Greenseers, Wargs and Shapeshifters

The Rules and Regional Bonus Information thread seems to imply there used to be a 1/50 roll done, before it got removed due to being rarely used. Maybe up the chance and nerf the associated bonuses, or was it more of a matter of not developing it on the RP side of things?

Edit: The 'Unless you're a Wildling' mention at wargs may just give Wildlings a nice boost to counter their lack of military (no heavy and elite infantry, no equipment, barely any cavalry). They'd have a bigger chance of having stat bonuses as opposed to those not living Beyond the Wall relying more on gear and professional troops.

Sounds like it could balance each other out without it becoming a roflstomp for either, anyway...

**Oznerol** · January 13, 2014, 10:29 AM

Agreed, Pontifex. Because nowadays we just have countless birth rolls, most without any counterproductive effects! More and more childs, every year. But think how many nobles families lost their firstborn child by a pox, or pneumonia, or how many toddlers could get ill and die in Westeros' Winter.

EDIT: There should be a chance of House's extinction, as that was a real danger. Xion, I was going to add that Targs should be inmune to lesser diseases, and such have higher chances of survival, but that would not be apreciated by many. And fire inmunity rolls... they are not needed at all.

**Xion** · January 13, 2014, 10:38 AM

I'm not saying a House can't go extinct, I am saying it'd be unfair for a player to lose the house solely because of a series of bad rolls they can't do anything about. It's a balancing issue in my opinion. Yes, that would be overpowered to a degree and fire immunity is one of the two Targaryen bloodline traits that was their version of a war from past versions. If people want to re-add wargs, why not re-add fire immunity or premonition for Valyrians? Who..I don't think can become wargs..?

**Pontifex Maximus** · January 13, 2014, 10:40 AM

Based on what is being proposed, the chance of tyat being the sole purpose a house goes extinct is like 1/1000

**Lord Dread** · January 13, 2014, 10:59 AM

Originally Posted by Pontifex Maximus

Based on what is being proposed, the chance of tyat being the sole purpose a house goes extinct is like 1/1000

5/20 is to be honest not a low chance, when you consider, that this roll will be done from age 1-14.
Rather could accept it, if this roll can be done for all children in the first three years, but anything above is way too much.

**Oznerol** · January 13, 2014, 10:44 AM

And this proposal, dear Xion, I'm afraid solely concerns birth, pregnancy and labour. Family traits, or dynasthical, are not quite fitting for my proposal, that should be discussed elsewhere:
Something like: "Valyrians, fire/disease inmunity and premonition"

**Xion** · January 13, 2014, 10:45 AM

Then why have other people mentioned warg rolls being done that are technically not in this proposal either in the thread, and yet, you don't tell them to discuss it elsewhere!

Edit : I am not suggesting something every Valyrian gets. I am simply suggesting a roll similar to the warg ones people keep discussing here for Valyrians.

**Oznerol** · January 13, 2014, 10:49 AM

Bonuses should be far, faaaar, lower. Jon Snow is somewhat like a warg, but he doesn't win battles easier, or avoids murders *cough* Warg should give for example, +1 to duel, +1 to spy, and survival, or even in assasination. But being a warg doesn't grant an edge in field battle commanding an army.

**Zethira** · January 13, 2014, 11:00 AM

Oh yeah, the numbers would definitely need to be redone, at all four animals that's +7 Field, +7 Escape, +10 Duels, +4 Assassination and +1 Siege. And whatever traits he gets for just getting older. We'd be looking at Wildlings with natural 10's in Field, Escape and Duels in their early 30's.

They should be good, but the NW wouldn't stand a chance if the Wildlings have like 20 Tywin Lannisters among their numbers. The idea is to balance out stats vs. gear.