Thread about roman army composition - help finding it

[pokeytrev]

I am looking for an old thread that provided an excellent overview of aemy composition for the romans, republican and marian. I don't want to go through hundreds of pages, and search yields nothing.

Anyone have the link?

[pokeytrev]

Nevermind, I found it. For those of you who are curious, here it is: http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...n-and-Tracking

[ur-Lord Tedric]

You may wish to look here - Post #3

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...quot%3Bbe+like

My armies are based as historically as possible, bearing in mind two things; firstly that the 20-unit stack is an army (Consular in the Middle Republic) and not one legion (so actually 2 legions + auxiliaries); and secondly that there were no Auxiliary legions. Everything is done on scale and noting that one man represents 10-20 and one cohort <> one cohort.

The main intent of he organisation throughout my testing was to see if historically accurate armies could actually be used and not legions of Praetorians; half-a-dozen archers; nor more than 4/4 cavalry units......

[pokeytrev]

You may wish to look here - Post #3

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...quot%3Bbe+like

My armies are based as historically as possible, bearing in mind two things; firstly that the 20-unit stack is an army (Consular in the Middle Republic) and not one legion (so actually 2 legions + auxiliaries); and secondly that there were no Auxiliary legions. Everything is done on scale and noting that one man represents 10-20 and one cohort <> one cohort.

The main intent of he organisation throughout my testing was to see if historically accurate armies could actually be used and not legions of Praetorians; half-a-dozen archers; nor more than 4/4 cavalry units......

Tedric, I very much prefer your composition as it is closer to what I use when playing Europa Barbarorum where much of the army is composed of allied units, as it should be. I didn't know there was such a great format out there, thank you! I will definitely be using it.

One question, I am a little confused with your explanation here:

Therefore I wanted to replicate the standard Roman Consular Army in a 20-unit army. With Polybius as my guide this would be:

General; 4 x Republican Cohorts; 1 x Triarii, 2 x Velites; 1 x Roman Cavalry; 4 x Allied Cohorts; 1 x Allied Triarii, 2 x Allied Velites; 3 x Allied Cavalry; for a total of 19, leaving a slot spare for a unit of mercs or artillery perhaps.

However, I knew this would be harder to manage and also had my eye on the later legions. Therefore, instead of thinking an army/stack was 2 x Legions + Allies, I halved my scaling and kept Roman and Ally units separate (Allies are also much cheaper to field!). Therefore I will use the following terms and their definitions:

Republican Legion: General; 8 x Cohorts; 2 x Triarii; 2 x Velites; 2 x Archers; 4 x Cavalry (2 x Missile when available); Repeating Ballista or Campanian Cavalry (this last is a unit that is too useful, but for which I know of no real historical precedent (and I’ve read Livy), certainly for its continued longevity and I’m now trying to do without it)

Later Legion: General; 1st Cohort; 6 x Cohorts; 2 x Antesignanii; 2 x Archers; 4 x ‘Auxiliary’ Cohorts; 2 x Heavy Cavalry; 2 x Missile Cavalry (these last 10 are true Auxilia when the Curia Hostilia is built, but suitable allied troops before) (in my test I have bypassed the Late Republic period legions)

Army: an army is a Legion stack supported by a half-stack (proportional) in reserve to provide replacements. Newly raised troops are sent to the reserve location, often a particular fort. I do use an extra 1st Cohort when available as this gets over the limitation of not being able to ‘promote’ ordinary cohort troops to the 1st as would have been done). Also used for an enemy full stack.

Force: often ad-hoc, formed from reserves or garrisons, or rear area guards 5-10 units strong.
Archers remain essential and cannot really be passed up. They are much less powerful than in Vanilla and I am much happier using less, but some are still, I believe, necessary as part of my structure. I am too swayed by my wider knowledge not to incorporate them early.

You give an example of the first composition, the one with 4 cohorts and 4 allied cohorts. And, in the second composition, you list 8 cohorts under Republican Legion. Why are there two different compositions for what looks like the same thing?

I aplogize if it should be obvious. The wording has me a little confused.

[ur-Lord Tedric]

.............. The wording has me a little confused.

No problem, I can see why...

The first one that follows the 'Polybius as my guide....' shows what I would have if I followed 'reality'. However, what I actually use(d) (given the game/mod limitations and not hamstringing myself stupidly) is either 'legions' with Polybian/Roman units or ones with Allied ones (as opposed to mixing them up).

That's because the Polybian/Roman ones (and part of the confusion is in the unit naming - a 'Polybian Cohort' would be better called a 'Roman cohort' to go with the Roman Velites/Triarii/Equites) are only recruitable in Italy (and probably only Roma at this stage) and the Allied are much easier if you Ally/Client a settlement (like Massalia, Syracuse or Carthago, etc).

Hope that explains?

[pokeytrev]

Yes, thank you. It makes perfect sense now. I'm happy to see a guide such as this.