Causality Under the Microscope

[Rolanbek]

Then you will agree that Hiroshima caused the Japanese to enter war with the Nazis. After all the relative direction of time is irrelevant to causation.

Unless you are aware of some causal link that we are not, then no.

The problem i can see, is that by decoupling causation from time we can end up with causal loops (paradoxes). Unless there is some other mechanism such as predetermination at work.

The time travel effect here is caused by the clash of two different models of the universe. Relativity states nothing moves more quickly than light, quantum physic requires the instantaneous communication between particles. Instantaneous transmission of state over distance has avoided the problems of undermining causaility as the FTL data channel betweeen the two particles could not transmit anything but irrelevent noise. Now however we are embarking on many projects that use this data channel (Quantum computing, quantum teleportation and Quantum Signaling are all fields which use this non classic data channels) and the question need to be raised:

Is causation directional? And if so what other directions can we point it?

R

[Simetrical]

Then you will agree that Hiroshima caused the Japanese to enter war with the Nazis. After all the relative direction of time is irrelevant to causation.

That ante hoc ergo propter hoc is no more valid than post hoc ergo propter hoc has no bearing on the matter. However, in attempting to compose a more explicit theory of causality I admit I have run into some difficulty. I will continue to consider the matter. I find the necessity of time for causation intuitively suspect.

(I assume you meant ". . . to enter war with the Americans", incidentally.)

[Oldgamer]

I disagree. There's nothing inherent in the concept of causation that requires the cause to precede the effect. But that's a minor semantic point.

But we don't live under the microscope or on the level of the photon. Our lives, as human beings, are inevitably bound by cause and effect. If it weren't, we would get into a science-fiction scenario in which we act in the present, causation occurs in the past, leading to an alternate timeline in which we don't exist to "cause" the causation which occurs in the past.

This whole theory is completely counterintuitive, if interesting, nonetheless ...

[Rolanbek]

But we don't live under the microscope or on the level of the photon. Our lives, as human beings, are inevitably bound by cause and effect. If it weren't, we would get into a science-fiction scenario in which we act in the present, causation occurs in the past, leading to an alternate timeline in which we don't exist to "cause" the causation which occurs in the past.

This whole theory is completely counterintuitive, if interesting, nonetheless ...

Most of Quantum physics is to be honest.

The interesting thing with these experiments is that they posit a way for microscopic to influence our macroscopic experience.

The most frightening thing is that if the experiments show retrocausation the simplest way a single universe could remain largely uneffected by possible looping is for it the already fit together neatly. The possbility that all that will happen has already happened are we are simply experienceing it slices moveing forward only, on rails if you like.

Of course simplest is not normally a word associated with quantum physics.

R

[Simetrical]

But we don't live under the microscope or on the level of the photon. Our lives, as human beings, are inevitably bound by cause and effect. If it weren't, we would get into a science-fiction scenario in which we act in the present, causation occurs in the past, leading to an alternate timeline in which we don't exist to "cause" the causation which occurs in the past.

Of course. I was talking about causation generally, not causation as related to our day-to-day life.

[Ummon]

The direction of time, I would suggest.

[Rolanbek]

How about into superimposed universes?

R

[Ummon]

Everything is possible, yet again, the simplest solution is often the best, unless of course the data diverge with it.

[Ummon]

Alongside the Nazis, against the Americans.

About temporal precedence and causation, for the cause to happen before the effect, is a necessary condition of causation, though not a sufficient condition for causation.