Proposal: Adding Wildlings

[Jokern]

This is a WIP at the moment, so any ideas that you have for wildling gameplay can be added and discussed here. I will add more to the OP later. Now we can gather everyone's thoughts on the subject.

[Zethira]

Not so much an idea as something to look out for, but they don't really have a system of taxes and fealty, and their trade is based on bartering items for items. One of the things i'm wary about is for them to be turned into 'little Lords' where they'll get shoehorned into a system designed to fit the nobility of Westeros.

[Wheatley]

The Thenns can work as normal lords. Like a single poor province with maybe a medium levy.

[Jokern]

I had in mind that the wildling clans and tribes would be a nomadic people; their army is their home. The Thenns are an exception to the wildlings in many ways; they would have a region with settlements and are led by lords, and their bronze weapons and armor are superior to what most wildlings can produce.

[Zethira]

I had in mind that the wildling clans and tribes would be a nomadic people; their army is their home. The Thenns are an exception to the wildlings in many ways; they would have a region with settlements and are led by lords, and their bronze weapons and armor are superior to what most wildlings can produce.

I agree with Jokern here. The Wildlings are primarily nomadic, but the Thenns have settlements and Lords because their weapons and armor are superior to what other Wildlings have. They would be Wildling tribes that have grown powerful enough to settle in one place rather than be forced to move around for their own safety, attacking while trying not to get attacked back.

[Jokern]

I like the crafting and raiding part of Trot's proposal, but I am unsure about the regions part. Since there is a possibility of there being more wildling tribes than regions, I don't think that controlling a region (except for the Thenns) is the right way to go. Each region could have a set troop pool, for example Hardhome would have 2,000 available troops from the beginning, which is depleted when you recruit followers from that region.

There's going to have to be a stability system so that you lose troops over time if you don't do certain things. Just sitting around and collecting troops without raiding or fighting other tribes means that you lose the trust of your followers and they leave. This will need work and balancing of course.

[Jokern]

I'm gonna add my ideas and Trot's old proposal here so that everything on wildlings is gathered in one place.


-Wildlings don't earn income, what they gain through raids is equipment and weapons, and it's an rp element to prove themselves as capable warriors and leaders.

-As they don't earn income, they can gather warriors through rolls that depends on how good they rp, for example by fighting other wildlings and NW and raiding the south. They do not regenerate over time, so the only way to get more men is through rp.

-Men cannot be gathered south of the Wall

-The men they gather through rp are light infantry, archers and a few heavy infantry, but they can upgrade to heavy infantry with equipment they gain through raids.

-Ranks depends on the amount of men you have.
--Wildling Warrior:0-50
--Wildling Leader: 50-100
--Wildling Chief: 100-?
--King-Beyond-The-Wall: over 1000 at least

One can only start as a Wildling Warrior with up to 10 light infantry following.

-The ranks give certain traits and abilities.

-The home thread is one's tribe, where one keeps the number of men and equipment gained and lost. As most wildlings are semi-nomadic, it isn't set at a fixed place but moves as the tribe moves, which is also documented in the home thread.

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Actually I had proposed a system for wildlings a few restarts ago. Some things might need reworking but I will see if I can dig it up.

Reigions

Wildling Regions Haunted forest +250 wildling warriors every turn Casters keep +500 wildling warriors every year Hardhome +100 wildling warriors every year The fist of the first men+500 The gorge+250 The haunted forest+100 the shivering coast+100 the frozen shore+100 thenn+100

Equitment

Wildling build weapons and win them Each wildling starts with the ability to craft an obsidian dagger, leather armor or fur armor and an stone one handed weapons with raw hide shield or stone two handed weapons there must be rp to back it up they must go find and obtain the materials to craft. You can attempt to craft other weapons but the chance of success is less. another way to earn gear is through battles more is earned by winning battles they then can loot their opponents admin roles decide what’s there if its an npc Roll decides the item level 1-10 basic +1-2 gear stone, obsidian, leather and fur 11-15 3-4 gear bronze iron and chainmail 16-20 advanced gear steel and plate 5-6 gear roll decides the item type 1-5 sword 6-10 shield 11-15 armor 16-20 dagger if it's not an npc it’s based on the players equipment

Raids

Raids against the Wall Bands of Wildling warriors attempt to sneak across the wall 75% chance of success. Once across they may attempt to raid a town and sneak back across with the loot which includes weapons, armor and food. Use the same roll system as Iron born raids. Freefolk live in a harsh land and must learn to fend for them selves

Skills

They should gain skill point +2 every 5 years depicting harsh conditions they endure forcing them to learn to survive

This was made a while ago before the stability system was implemented and when all vs weapons gave a base +8 to rolls. It needs some reworking if someone wants to look at some of the stuff and balance it out. I never finished the crafting system and raid rolls could be changed depending on night watch rp at the time. I was basing it on the books description of the watch.
And I will play a wildling chief if that opens up.

[Hengest]

I agree, there shouldn't be any regions beyond the wall. But there could be unlimited* (in theory) number of 'houses' or clans. There would be a set pool and possibly low base income, perhaps with a bonus boost to military commanders. +1 field, siege or capture. The idea would be to gain cash from raids, but no Northern lord would ever accept a Wildling as a lord of a captured castle and the NW are always going to be after them. So Wildling players aren't going to get very far unless they are very lucky and very good at RP.

[Jokern]

Of what use is gold to the wildlings? I think that they should have no income nor be able to gain any money from raiding. Getting equipment like armor and weapons seems the most reasonable to me that they'd get from raids.

Does anybody know how big Mance Rayder's army was? It is a good reference to what the limit for the King-Beyond-The-Wall should be set at. As I've stated, the ranks reflect the amount of followers you have imo.

[Adamat]

AWOIAF claims:

Main Host
~20,000 fighters.
100+ Mammoths.
Strike Party south of the Wall

100 Thenns and 20 experienced raiders

during the attack on the Wall

[Jokern]

I guess we won't add giants or mammoths to the game, are we?

[jacb547]

Maybe as elite heavy inf or elite heavy horse?

[Adamat]

Please no giants or mammoths, I think they'll be a PITA in terms of balancing and usability.

[Jokern]

Thought as much.

[Zethira]

Well you COULD, but it'll be their version of an Invasion roll, a.k.a. Giants and Mammoths as enemies. Then you could make them 10-point units for all we'd care, they'll never be recruitable to begin with.

[Trot]

Yeah the regions were made to fit with an old rules set. Don't worry about them. Maybe loot can include material witch you can use to craft weapons and armor or barter for it with other wildlings. And we may be able to use the conversion mechanic for priests and convert it to a way for wildlings to gain warriors. All though on top of thenn there are a couple of other settelments that you may want to look at. The person who manages to gain control of them will command a lot of respect. For instance Casters Keep Hardhome and the Fist of the firstmen.

[Poach]

My own pass on a Wildling game mechanic that emphasises simplicity, competition and sandbox.

* * *

Wildlings
Start Conditions:
- A Wildling tribe has a certain number of people. One third can be regarded as fighting-age males. Deaths in battles or raids will be subtracted from the tribe’s total population.
- A tribe starts as 1,000 strong, except the Thenn who start as “settled” (see below).
- A tribe starts off semi-nomadic, moving as necessary through the provinces Beyond the Wall.

Growing:
- Defeating another tribe, absorb d20*5% of their surviving number.
- Every year, d20*100 new members. Request the roll in the New Year thread.
- Every year spent in the same province, d20*100 new members.
- New members can be attracted by spending wealth, with 1 new member costing 2 Dragons.

Shrinking:
- Every year spent in the same province, 4/20 chance of exhausting local resources, if it happens, d10*5% of the tribe die or desert. Every time this is rolled, per tribe, +4 to the chances on the next roll, whether or not it is a different province. This roll will be done if an additional recruitment roll is made for staying put.
- Being defeated will lose you members to the victorious tribe.

Economy:
- A tribe has wealth. For ease of gameplay it will be represented in Dragons.
- A tribe starts with 2,000 Dragons.
- A tribe generates 1 Dragon per person in the tribe per year.
- If a tribe defeats and absorbs another tribe, it gains wealth proportional to the absorbed members (eg if you absorb 40% of the tribe you get 40% of their bank)
- A tribe can send men to raid provinces south of the wall. Due to the low numbers of Wildling troops, enemy levy response will be d20*100 troops rather than normal numbers.
- Crossing the wall undetected is a base 15/20 chance, with a -1 modifier for every hundred soldiers above 500 men. If spotted the Night’s Watch is alerted to where they have crossed and whether they were going south or north.

Settlement:
- When a tribe reaches 5,000 people it may construct a permanent settlement. It will no longer roll for exhausting local resources and will claim one of the provinces beyond the wall as their territory. The Thenn people will start at this stage. Yearly growth roll is d20*200.
- Each 5,000 additional souls may claim one further province. Each province may conduct a growth roll.
- When three provinces are controlled a player may crown himself King Beyond the Wall and gain d20*400 additional followers.

Troop Types:
- Wildling forces will be 50% Light Infantry, 25% Archers, 25% Heavy Infantry.
- When crowned King Beyond the Wall, the player gains 500 Elite Infantry.

[Zethira]

You know, i've been looking at this Concordance, and there's some interesting stuff on here:

3.4.2. TRADE AND RESOURCES

• The wildlings have contact with smugglers from the Free Cities and perhaps Westeros as well, trading goods in the little coves on the eastern coast along the Shivering Sea. They take steel weapons and armor in return for furs, ivory, amber, and obsidian (III: 608)
• Chieftains and notorious men may receive tributes from villages and clans under their sway in the form of bread, salt, and cider (V: 9)
• A dozen strings of amber and a pile of pelts might be traded for six skins of wine, a block of salt, and a copper kettle (V: 11-12)
• Some Wildings could trade at Eastwatch, if they were welcomed as friends of the Watch (V: 12)

[Hengest]

It's a really good bit of support but I don't think lore means much to the mods, note:
Bastards are said to grow up more swiftly than other children (I: 45)
It is not unexpected for noblemen to have bastard children (I: 54)
It is not typical for a noble to bring his bastards home and raise them with his own children. It's more usually expected that he will see to the child's well-being to some degree (I: 55)

The current traits system penalises bastards as commoners rather than allowing them to 'grow up quicker', nearly all the bastards in our campaign that I can think of are part of the main Houses. That is one example of many disparities with the lore. I think if the Wildlings were to reflect the lore following your quote, it would allow the North and the NW far more action. One of the last missing pieces in the TWC AGOT RPG

[Poach]

You have to bear in mind that this is a game, and lore only goes so far in a game. Everything in the books turn out how GRRM wants them to turn out, no matter what. In a game we have a dozen competing minds and agendas.

Where GRRM is one mind and he decides all fate, we're many and we need rules and systems to bring balance and competition fairly. Strictly following lore made for a one-man show simply can't work for us.

I'd also point out the majority of our new systems (certainly everything I've ever done, which is a lot) is put to a public vote, not a mod-only vote. Blaming "the mods" is frankly unfair. The entire playerbase is complicit in "not caring".

Additionally "growing up faster" indicates they're forced to be in the world faster, where legitimate children keep the silver spoon longer. Demanding earlier traits to illustrate this is the laziest approach possible. Want them grown up faster? Roleplay it. I'm RPing Donnel Lefford in command of an entire cavalry force on foreign territory and he's got not one single trait point. They're utterly worthless until your characters get into their 30s and 40s anyway and see +3 and +4 stats. +1 Battles, Survival, Duel? Not gonna do much in the grand scheme of things.

Nothing you've listed there requires rules to work. Nothing.