seige AI still horribly broken when will all of these issues be fixed CA???? Now updated with patch 9

[Used2BRoz]

Had another defensive siege battle.
This is in CiG -I'm defending a barbarian walled settlement as Nervii, being attacked by other barbarians.
I'm defending a settlement the tuern after it has been sacked so only very small under-strength garrison army.
Large AI stack attacked with 4 "ladders"; three other small stacks attacked a different gate with torches (they were re-inforcements so had no equipment.)
Due to narrow pathway large stack can only send 1 or 2 ladders at a time to my wall (a very narrow defended wall with gate)
First two ladders make it to wall but after suffering many casualties on approach only 1 unit makes it onto wall where it is defeated.
Second unit flees before contact.
AI then sends 2 more ladders to wall - both to same section of wall where there isn't room for another ladder.
Both units stand around until casualties force them to flee.
At which point AI sends 3 more units to torch the gate.
They take too many casualties and flee before the gate is burnt.

At the other gate, the AI succeeds in burning the gate and enters and eventually overwhelms my defenders after taking many casualties.

Once second gate is breached the remaining forces from the large stack move round and enter the settlement through the breached gate.

Once inside the settlement the AI defeats the defenders from the first gate, but is left with just 5 units, some heavily reduced,
but more than enough to defeat my last two infantry units of 30 swordsmen camped in front of the 3rd victory point.

With 40 minutes to go and outnumbered about 5 to 1 I resign myself to defeat.
Apparently so does the AI as it then does nothing until the timer expires and I have won.

Clearly there's more work to be done on the Attacking siege BAI.

(The initial set-up was wrong for a start - the large stack with the ladders should have set up opposire a long stretch of wall, not a narrow section. That would have given the attackers plenty of room to deploy 4 ladders.)

[lawandorder82]

another siege battle video to show you the ai seige in action http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkQM...ature=youtu.be

[lawandorder82]

The ai used the ram ladders and siege towers in my campaign game when I was defending my city it acctualy was a good fight.

[General Maximus]

The ai used the ram ladders and siege towers in my campaign game when I was defending my city it acctualy was a good fight.

AI actually waited to build siege towers and rams? Good for you, then. Most of us are playing different games, because AI almost never waits and instantly assaults at first sight, since AI has got the iron-melting gate burning torches.

[johnny_b_good]

The ai used the ram ladders and siege towers in my campaign game when I was defending my city it acctualy was a good fight.

Put a few videos pls I want to see.

[Used2BRoz]

Have had a CiG battle - defending the same settlement as the one previously (barb walled)

This time AI waited a turn (so they can do it)
Built ladders and sheds. (I say sheds as there was no sign of a ram inside them.)

Although there was only 1 army attacking the AI split its forces so 5 units attacked the narrow wall gate with missile troops and finally torches.
(They got 2 of my very weak units to break and run but failed to get in the gate)
The second lot of units deployed the 4 ladders against an open stretch of wall.

These trundled up to the wall, 2 took so many casualties they fled before getting to the wall.
I got to the wall and fled before engaging.
Fourth got to the wall, and engaged but was repulsed with heavy losses.

So did the AI deploy its sheds ? - nope - they stood there with guys under them until the AI decided to torch my gates.
They failed to get in and were repulsed with heavy losses.

Far more effective have been two agents who have destroyed my settlements and the farms - so my armies suffer terrible attrition.
Should make capturing the settlements a lot easier.

[Dago Red]

Far more effective have been two agents who have destroyed my settlements and the farms - so my armies suffer terrible attrition.
Should make capturing the settlements a lot easier.

This is really telling about how broken this game was, and still is 9 patches later. 1 guy wearing a hoodie can annihilate a few hundred men with one pouch of arsenic, raze every building in the city to the ground and kill your most famous general in hand to hand combat, all without breaking a sweat, then move on to your next territory and do the same thing.

Yet a fully trained and equipped army of 10,000 men with siege weapons can't even claim enough competence to successfully leave a bag of dog poop on your doorstep.

[lawandorder82]

here is the newest video of the siege ai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkQM2Nuwyc

[Aenima]

here is the newest video of the siege ai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkQM2Nuw

I hate to ask, but apparently it's a genuine problem - are you playing a custom battle or a battle that was fought in your campaign? I only ask because I've heard it said that that's an issue in the equipment the AI uses, and your army set up looks to contain no mob units or anything of the sort, which garrisons usually compose of. That said, into the content


1 - siege towers, brilliant!
2 - a ram as well, brilliant! (no, seriously, is this a custom battle? to my understanding this level of siege equipment actually being used is almost unheard of)
3 - why do you keep leaving your walls undefended? I realise that you want to show the AI seizing the gate, but I'm interested to see how the AI reacts when the units sent up the walls fail. So far I've never experienced them being reinforced, and I've heard countless others say the same...I realise that you want to show the AI perfoming well with the ladders (seizing key points) but I'd like to see how the AI reacts when the men on the walls start losing
4 - that lack of ladder use is a bit suspect, to be honest....I realise it wasn't needed, but then neither were all siege towers. I hope it was the AI deciding not bother vs derping out
5 - Wow. That flanking force waited in place for 3 full minutes before it charged whilst their guys were getting slaughtered(and that's the entire force; the initial units waited for even longer) and they almost instantly just drew back, although I think that was due to you reacting and them deciding they didn't want to fight.




This game is not perfect...I wouldn't even say it's great. It's moderately good at the very best. We've played it, we've experienced it, that's why they say the things we say. You leaving the walls totally unguarded and declaring that the siege AI works just fine is dishonest; you're creating a scenario where it works fine because you're letting them take the walls. If you killed those attackers, going by the game's track record, the AI would be very unlikely to storm the walls with fresh troops.

But that said, god it was good to see a ram battering down the gates in Rome 2 and not having them burnt down. It's sad that I even have to say that, but that's life.

[Modestus]

here is the newest video of the siege ai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkQM2Nuwyc

Thanks for that , the AI clearly used its Siege Towers and Ram to take walls and once the Gate was taken it moved its main army inside so very similar to RTW1.

Lets see what happens when the walls are defended, you should also test a Barbarian settlement as people seem to be having trouble with those.

One other thing that comes to mind when defending a settlement get your units on the walls to target the enemy forces (without siege equipment) curious to see if this causes them to move against the gate with torches.

[okiz0ne]

Ehm..Campaign battle you say...Where is your garrison then? Pretty obvious it's a custom battle you playing.Why you lie about this i dont even want to know..

Well..I guess you have no problems taking a screenshot showing us its campaign then..

And i guess you dont mind putting up som real defence on the wall and show us reinforcments climbing upp the ladders to fight after the first units climbed the ladders. You basically let the enemies take the walls and capture the capturepoints without real resistance.

If you put, lets say 3-4 melee units to support your skirmishers on the walls, how will the ai react with the ladders? Will they send more men to reinforce their guys trying to take their walls ? No they wont, and i think you know that, and thats why you:

1.Dont properly defend your walls and simply let the ai capture the walls and capture point at the gate without trying to stop them. you let them in as i said.

2. Why you lie about the video being a campaign battle, in campaign battle your settlements and cities has garrisons. You have no garrisons in you siege clips.


After following this thread with my chin dropping to feets for a while, i felt i just had to say what everyone else is thinking in this thread.

[johnny_b_good]

here is the newest video of the siege ai http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JbkQM2Nuwyc

Custom battle.

[lawandorder82]

it is campaign vanilla leaveing the walls undefended is to show how the ai will react i will do test to see how it reacts to when my army are on the walls the first video i put was me as rome fighting nova carthrage in campaig. the only probelm i have seen is the siege ai in cig but that is all i seen.

[General Maximus]

it is campaign vanilla leaveing the walls undefended is to show how the ai will react i will do test to see how it reacts to when my army are on the walls the first video i put was me as rome fighting nova carthrage in campaig. the only probelm i have seen is the siege ai in cig but that is all i seen.

If it really is a campaign battle, please post a screenshot or video depicting that from campaign map.

It seems highly unlikely though. So many towers, a ram, and unusual army composition. Not to mention that Egypt or Athens (whichever faction that is) rarely survive. It has got to be a custom battle.

Besides, purposefully leaving a few weak points for the AI doesn't make it great at all.

[okiz0ne]

Oh, how could i forget. When AI make a siege in campaign they always get 4 ladders the first turn. ALWAYS. In your latest clip you can clearly see only one ladder which once again show that it's actually a custombattle and not a campaignbattle.

I think it's best to just let this thread die and not make anymore responses..If this isnt a troll i no longer know what a troll is..

[Broly]

pictures are from one of my friends as they just went on a ballistic rant to me about it for like an hour i agree with them an already started to give up on this game

Basically they got invaded by some supreme fleet of ownage that managed to take up every boat spot on the waters edge, they managed to push back the landing forces, and the rest of the boats (about 10-20 of them i didnt count the image) stayed out in the ocean like spastics, my friend some how had the patience to wait over an hour to see if they would route, they didnt. Had to quit battle, they lost the settlement + their army and uninstalled the game. They said they lost over 4 settlements because auto resolving was like a 10% chance of victory when ultimately the battles never ended because of this.

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i myself have kinda gotten off rome 2 iv bought every total war game up till this point and medieval 3 will probably come out this year and to be perfectly honest i dont think i will pick it up anymore i really dont like this new engine at all, yes it looks "pretty" with all them unseen facial animations and fighting animations, but i dont know just smash 2 units against each other an watch how they keep running even when they are right against bad guys it looks silly, to me its just a shell of a game, i currently am still playing the crap out of medieval 2 stainless steel. It is going to have to do alot to impress me to buy another total war.

they told me they got a message saying that CA are aware of the issue but iv had this issue before all of the patches aswell.


I dont expect much from sieges but to be honest they should atleast work right? in medieval 2 i pretty much see every siege they get the front door open an bum rush it i can normally just turn it into a big cluster at an entry or they use ladders an climb the walls you can usually stop it if not too overpowered.

But in rome 2 the siege ai is just horrible iv noticed them sit there and throw unit after unit at the front gate trying to burn it down, seriously iv seen 3-4 full units die from arrow towers trying to burn a gate, and then they bum rush it, get rid of these fire sticks seriously its laughable. Probably remove seige equipment requirements off this tech tree thing too while you are at it, just go back to the good old days where if you have the building YOU CAN BUILD IT, it will help the ai to be able to do remotely anything then fail.

None of the major factions did anything in any of the games i played of rome total war 2, rome was passive Carthage was only Carthage libya how ever had everything around Carthage, so yeah i duno im not looking forward to the next game if changes arent made to me this engine isnt good, or maybe i just like medieval 2's better because it works.

[lawandorder82]

The first battle video I put was rome vs nova cathrage which was a campaign battle im going to work on what is requested with cig and haveing my walls defended

[Alhaioth]

<snip>

Oh yeah, amphibious assaults... there is a limited amount of ship "slots" on the shore, so if one army too many ends up in the same spot, the battle is unresolvable unless you have the timer on. Happened to me once when assaulting some settlement on Sicily, but I was lucky enough to have an allied army nearby. I would've lost or suffered heavy casualties otherwise.

[General Maximus]

Oh yeah, amphibious assaults... there is a limited amount of ship "slots" on the shore, so if one army too many ends up in the same spot, the battle is unresolvable unless you have the timer on. Happened to me once when assaulting some settlement on Sicily, but I was lucky enough to have an allied army nearby. I would've lost or suffered heavy casualties otherwise.

Yep, the slots on the beaches are very frustrating, and what's worse is that they are not present in places where they would've been present in reality. I have had battles in settlements where there are open beaches where real ships would often come ashore, yet in the game ships cannot go close to them at all.

I remember a campaign battle as Macedon, forgot the name of settlement since the campaign of this game is so boring and ugly. I was defending one of those coastal villages (actually a fully upgraded city, but you know CA and their stupid design decision for unwalled towns being villages), with a fullstack. The enemy was some faction who was earlier situated in the same little coastal village earlier before I took their 'capital', and I had taken the village when the tiny enemy army was idly and mindlessly cruising in the sea instead of defending their village. Once the town was mine, they became rebels, and rebels on sea immediately attack coastal provinces, so they tried to retake their village.

So there I was, sitting with a full stack in a village, while the enemy attacked from sea. I got no garrison ships due to recent conquest, but the enemy had at least 10 units. Then it turned out that there were only 4-5 landing spots, even though there were docks and a lot of beaches. The stupid AI decided to send one half of it's army (weak skirmishers) to use up all the landing space, while their real infantry and general stayed on the sea. Once they landed, my cavalry on the beach broke them and chased them. But there were no landing points left, so the main enemy army became braindead and did nothing, floating aimlessly on the sea, unable to land. At the same time, I could do nothing to them.

Since I never have timer turned on (I love to play without artificial time limits), the only option I had was to quit. To quit meant to lose, even though my entire army was intact and enemy was so easy to defeat. I lost, and then on campaign my army of experienced hoplites and pikemen was completely wiped out even if it didn't lose a single man.

Even in Medieval II and RTW, enemy automatically retreated when it had no means of engaging left (AKA destruction of siege equipment for example), no matter the size of his army, and the result was a draw. In Rome II, the AI simply goes braindead and stands there until player quits out of frustration.

[RedGuard]

Yep, the slots on the beaches are very frustrating, and what's worse is that they are not present in places where they would've been present in reality. I have had battles in settlements where there are open beaches where real ships would often come ashore, yet in the game ships cannot go close to them at all.

I remember a campaign battle as Macedon, forgot the name of settlement since the campaign of this game is so boring and ugly. I was defending one of those coastal villages (actually a fully upgraded city, but you know CA and their stupid design decision for unwalled towns being villages), with a fullstack. The enemy was some faction who was earlier situated in the same little coastal village earlier before I took their 'capital', and I had taken the village when the tiny enemy army was idly and mindlessly cruising in the sea instead of defending their village. Once the town was mine, they became rebels, and rebels on sea immediately attack coastal provinces, so they tried to retake their village.

So there I was, sitting with a full stack in a village, while the enemy attacked from sea. I got no garrison ships due to recent conquest, but the enemy had at least 10 units. Then it turned out that there were only 4-5 landing spots, even though there were docks and a lot of beaches. The stupid AI decided to send one half of it's army (weak skirmishers) to use up all the landing space, while their real infantry and general stayed on the sea. Once they landed, my cavalry on the beach broke them and chased them. But there were no landing points left, so the main enemy army became braindead and did nothing, floating aimlessly on the sea, unable to land. At the same time, I could do nothing to them.

Since I never have timer turned on (I love to play without artificial time limits), the only option I had was to quit. To quit meant to lose, even though my entire army was intact and enemy was so easy to defeat. I lost, and then on campaign my army of experienced hoplites and pikemen was completely wiped out even if it didn't lose a single man.

Even in Medieval II and RTW, enemy automatically retreated when it had no means of engaging left (AKA destruction of siege equipment for example), no matter the size of his army, and the result was a draw. In Rome II, the AI simply goes braindead and stands there until player quits out of frustration.

I miss the days of m2tw where if you had a bunch of elite cavalry you could do a King theoden and charge out and try to knock out thier trebuchet /catapults. DId that one time as France against the mongols which made their 5,000 man army forced to retreat.

Edit: interesting it appears trebuchet in word autocorrects to bucharest