seige AI still horribly broken when will all of these issues be fixed CA???? Now updated with patch 9

[lawandorder82]

Cause I posted videos and they are exclent in my games

The sieges are fine in my game I was the first one to post videos in this topic the proof is in the videos and I have played a lot of sieges and with the newest patch it is a lot better

[DarkKismeth]

Cause I posted videos and they are exclent in my games

The sieges are fine in my game I was the first one to post videos in this topic the proof is in the videos and I have played a lot of sieges and with the newest patch it is a lot better

Let me guess about the siege battle, custom battle? Right? Because i never expierenced, that the AI comes around with Ram and Siege Tower. I don´t want to say, that the AI can´t handle such things, but the AI won´t come around with such things. Even the AI army itself looks too good to be true, you won´t face such a army in the campaign.

[Dago Red]

Sieges are still broken after the last hotfix, even though CA made this one their big first attempt at a siege fix. Back to the drawing board CA.

[MasterBigAb]

Ok enough guys.
I cleaned the thread.

Stay kind and civil and refrain from personal posting, off-topic posting and insults or I will have to close this thread and take further action.
Thank you.

- MasterBigAb

[Phier]

I don't think the warscape engine can handle a siege, period, stop. Something about how units are handled just doesn't allow it.

[General Maximus]

I don't think the warscape engine can handle a siege, period, stop. Something about how units are handled just doesn't allow it.

This.

Warscape pathfinding is horribly broken. Siege needs a completely new engine. Unit weightlessness, the AI inability, and other Warscape limitations only destroy TW from within.

[stevehoos]

I don't think the warscape engine can handle a siege, period, stop. Something about how units are handled just doesn't allow it.

Correct indeed.

[Dago Red]

Just had another abysmal 2 sieges. Both times the AI performed exactly has I showed on the previous page, except without siege towers they rushed the gates after the ladders failed and did the torch magic we've seen since release.

Each time there seems to be 1 unit that can't make it up its ladders and just sits there until:
1. They are shot to pieces and rout.
2. I take men outside the gates to attack them in flank.
3. Time runs out.

In the first 2 instances, the rest of the army (idle since the battle began aside from ladders/ram units) springs to life and attacks the gate, all rushing into a bottleneck of death. Never does one single unit try to climb the ladders again.

[Aenima]

B-b-but those videos...y-your experience is invalid...

[sshock]

not sure what you guys are arguing about.Siege AI was never good in any previous TW.yep,its a shame CA cant do it properly,but thats hardly a news

[Phier]

not sure what you guys are arguing about.Siege AI was never good in any previous TW.yep,its a shame CA cant do it properly,but thats hardly a news

There have always been problems with siege AI but that didn't stop you from having some epic and fun battles at times, and the modders did some good things with them too.

[Pushupbrah]

If they can script the AI to use ladders then why can't they simply script a ram for them? Please for the love of god get rid of the torches.

[Cavalier]

If they can script the AI to use ladders then why can't they simply script a ram for them? Please for the love of god get rid of the torches.

Torches could still be part of the game - for naval invasions and such.

What needs to be done is to write a script that forces the AI to spend at least 1 turn to build siege equipment. Perhaps this could be implemented by the newly released modding tools?

[Pushupbrah]

Torches could still be part of the game - for naval invasions and such.

What needs to be done is to write a script that forces the AI to spend at least 1 turn to build siege equipment. Perhaps this could be implemented by the newly released modding tools?

I fully agree and yes they need to force the AI to spend a turn building siege equipment. Heck, they need to force the AI to not assault the walls if they don't have to. The new modding tools have me hopeful as well.

To add something to the thread. I recently started a campaign as Rome on hard. I am playing for the first time since September so I know how bad the game was back then. The year is around 120 BC. Here are my observations.

-The new ladder script seems to at least work. The 4 units of AI usually make it to the walls and use their ladders. The only time I've seen it bug out is when there are some buildings in the way, in which case they just get stuck or don't do anything. This has only happened once or twice though. Perhaps CA could fix this by making walls with buildings in front of them unassailable like certain sections of the walls in medieval 2?

-Still have not seen the AI build a ram or a tower.

-After the AI soldiers on the wall are killed by mine, the rest of the army that is vacationing in Bermuda bulrushes the gate to burn it down. The bumrush doesn't bother me so much as it happened in Rome and Medieval 2 after the ram destroyed the gate. The problem is still as stated in the thread, the AI doesn't even try to send a few more units onto the ladders as well as rush the gate. In Rome and Medieval 2 the AI would usually send another unit or two up the tower or ladders. I would like that back please.

-I have yet to be sieged by the AI while defending a barbarian settlement so I am not sure how the AI handles those forts. My only experience is with defending Roman forts.

-AI assaulting a walled city from the sea is still pretty bugged. Ships get stuck and units that land near the towers just sit there and get shot to death. Honestly if this is beyond repair maybe a modder can remove naval battles from the game in the future? I feel like they are beyond saving.

Overall I can tell progress has been made. The game is definitely more enjoyable and I feel like I'm having some fun. More work needs to be done however and sieges are still at the top of my list for things that need to be fixed in this game. Please get rid of the ability to torch the gate and force the AI to lay siege for at least one turn. This will force it to build some siege equipment and thus provide much more challenge to me the player.

[♘Top Hat Zebra]

It's not really that the AI was so challenging in Rome 1 or M2TW. It wasn't, it was still really easy.

It's just that, at least then, the battles actually looked interesting. Other than the few exceptions where the AI bugged out (Rare) it at least LOOKED like a big siege, with towers and ladders and rams all marching slowly up to the walls.

[johnny_b_good]

It's not really that the AI was so challenging in Rome 1 or M2TW. It wasn't, it was still really easy.

It's just that, at least then, the battles actually looked interesting. Other than the few exceptions where the AI bugged out (Rare) it at least LOOKED like a big siege, with towers and ladders and rams all marching slowly up to the walls.

Yes but in medieval 2, my experience, when AI attacked my castle with 2 or 3 walls defence, I burn their rams but they make it through. Then they took one of my ram and countinue to the other gate. It was so cool to see that. And in some modes BAI is much better. They storm you from all sides not just one. Some of the modders said yesterday that they can't tweak BAI in Rome 2- I don't know is it true? Just CAI. Also, for me, sieges are better in Rome 1 and Medieval 2 no matter those games are much older.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

Send a mob out too the ladder unit and attack they drop the ladder and follow you all over the map, when you send your mob inside the enemy just stops and stand there doing nothing. ain't that intelligent!

[Aenima]

Send a mob out too the ladder unit and attack they drop the ladder and follow you all over the map, when you send your mob inside the enemy just stops and stand there doing nothing. ain't that intelligent!

Wow.

So basically the AI isn't smart enough to do sieges, and is simply scripted to put ladders in place?

another siege battle video to show you the ai seige in action

"This video is private"

[dvk901]

Wow.
So basically the AI isn't smart enough to do sieges, and is simply scripted to put ladders in place?

That's basically the ONLY way they can address BAI issues in this game.....other than tearing the exe apart. Just watching the behavior of units you can see that CA scripted the units WITH a ladder to use it and climb walls. First problem being, the script cannot address the problem of 'different size' walls, nor can it account for the randomly generated bs that gets in the way. Second problem, the rest of the army doesn't use the ladders because there's no way on earth to write a script comprehensive enough to deal with every unit in every situation for every city and wall type. That's why you get a few units with ladders attacking while the rest take a vacation in Bermuda.

I don't think this engine allows the attacking army to see the ladders as a 'path' into the settlement, which was evident in RTW1 and M2TW. Thus, without fixing that, if it can even BE fixed, the other units will never use the ladders.

As I posted before, I truly think the only solution to this is to ditch ladders completely, auto-give the AI onagers or Lithobolos, and let the AI punch holes in the walls for the attacking army to use as paths into the settlement. Then rush the whole army through the holes ala Rome2 'blob' style.

[jamreal18]

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

This!