seige AI still horribly broken when will all of these issues be fixed CA???? Now updated with patch 9

[Tiwaz]

You guys are still arguing with this dude?

I have seen no improvement in the siege AI, but I have also yet to be sieged in a walled city by the AI since the patch. You see, the AI refuses to attack you unless you are vastly outnumbered. This might be preferably to an AI that throws 2 units at your 10, but since it cannot even muster the capability to take you on in a 1v1 ratio, AI siege attacks are rare for me -- because unlike the AI, my forces are not constantly making magic boats and sailing around the sea, they are defending cities and trying to engage the enemy on the field.

Nah, it is not that smart. At least when we deal with slave rebellions (which is what my example was). I had near full stack (16) and lvl2 Roman capital garrison with some plebs on top against near full stack or enemy forces, so we were near parity in numbers. Attacked and sieged. And failed as described earlier.

I posted videos of it I can't help it if my vanila game is not the same as yours

You posted video where AI was about as competent as handicapped gopher in attacking a city. You failed to show them use ladders PROPERLY, instead using magic torches and getting general murdered for nothing. Then you pretend that having only units who brought ladders getting up the wall and rest coming through the gate as sign of "split forces" while it in reality is just AI being too bloody stupid to reuse ladders to push more troops on the wall instead of taking them into little chokepoint where any semicompetent player can murder them.

[lawandorder82]

Yea sorry about twisting the camera like that I wanted to make sure I showed everything in the video I think the archery towers scared the ai so thats why they advace slowely but when they were at my walls they stayed in the center to have the capture points belong to them

[Pontic Pontus]

The Siege AI is improved not in that they send more units up the walls but in that once they're over the gate with ladders or through it with ram or catapult they actually fight you in the streets and fight until they've defeated you, not just stopping and climbing off ladders, and always use rams when they are available.

[Dago Red]

Ran custom siege to test (since I cannot replicate the conditions for the AI to actually attack my walled cities yet). Started out promising with the AI bringing it's ladders against the walls, and a ram against the nearby gate. Otherwise known as step #1 in any other TW game before warscape when attacking a walled city without catapults. So while nice, this is no big feat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The ram made it to the gate but then did nothing. The men seemed to abandon it when they took too much fire and then just sat there until they were routed. The ladders both made it to the walls but one burned down and the men never made it up. Of the other ladder, the first few up top were all killed and then the rest of the unit stayed below for about 4 minutes.

At least once during this time they threw their pila at the walls, somehow able to see the units behind and think they could attack. You see the same nonsensical crap happening with javelin and bow units -- who can actually throw/fire high enough to hit their targets regardless of the fact that they can't possibly see them. Line of sight anyone?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After this delay, the rest of the unit climbed the ladder and .....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...apart from 4 brave men, the rest bugged out at the top and never tried to jump down onto the actual wall. They were all shot to pieces and the unit routed.



This whole time the rest of the army -- we had a whopping 3 enemy units engaged so far -- just sat back by their scorpion with their siege towers. But ss soon as the ladder morons routed the siege towers sprung into action!

And.... one went in circles while the other two went the wrong way, away from the city, then they all spun in circles... FOR 20 MINUTES.




I exited to windows.

[Sir_Pee_Alot]

Ran custom siege to test (since I cannot replicate the conditions for the AI to actually attack my walled cities yet). Started out promising with the AI bringing it's ladders against the walls, and a ram against the nearby gate. Otherwise known as step #1 in any other TW game before warscape when attacking a walled city without catapults. So while nice, this is no big feat.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

The ram made it to the gate but then did nothing. The men seemed to abandon it when they took too much fire and then just sat there until they were routed. The ladders both made it to the walls but one burned down and the men never made it up. Of the other ladder, the first few up top were all killed and then the rest of the unit stayed below for about 4 minutes.

At least once during this time they threw their pila at the walls, somehow able to see the units behind and think they could attack. You see the same nonsensical crap happening with javelin and bow units -- who can actually throw/fire high enough to hit their targets regardless of the fact that they can't possibly see them. Line of sight anyone?

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

After this delay, the rest of the unit climbed the ladder and .....

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

...apart from 4 brave men, the rest bugged out at the top and never tried to jump down onto the actual wall. They were all shot to pieces and the unit routed.



This whole time the rest of the army -- we had a whopping 3 enemy units engaged so far -- just sat back by their scorpion with their siege towers. But ss soon as the ladder morons routed the siege towers sprung into action!

And.... one went in circles while the other two went the wrong way, away from the city, then they all spun in circles... FOR 20 MINUTES.




I exited to windows.

Yes i know how you feel. only mr.bundy dont understand the problems thats called siege AI

[lawandorder82]

why dont you just record it pictures show nothing

[johnny_b_good]

why dont you just record it pictures show nothing

[ToonTotalWar]

Dago Red - just read your post 105, that is just ludicrous what you encountered, I really do not understand how the AI is this bad!!! CA care to explain please?

[lawandorder82]

It just a picture a video is better

[Tr0tskY]

It just a picture a video is better

You are basically saying that Dago is making this up and that unless he provides video evidence what he has shown in his pictures is not true?

Enough of us have experienced exactly the same things over and over so it's not really necessary. You are just being obtuse for the sake of it.

But watch these videos and you will see where we come from

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AVbb-JiZnQA

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qu95E8osoxw

[lawandorder82]

I posted videos of it I can't help it if my vanila game is not the same as yours

[lawandorder82]

Did you see my recent video they used the ladders fine

[Belisarius1]

There's really no point even addressing this. Sieges in Rome 2 don't work and they will never work. The problems are hard coded in Warscape and eight patches with little improvement is proof enough of that.
CA will never fix it because the resources involved would be too great. And that's why gate burning will stay, the AI can't get into a city without it. They already stole our money and sold more copies of the game than any previous TW.
There's simply no financial incentive for them to invest the resources to fix siege AI. SEGA is cracking the whip, the patches have a skeleton crew and the rest are working on new projects. The stripped features are a result of cost cutting, unrealistic deadlines and obviously the eventual console release. With Shogun 2 the grappling hooks simplified the game and essentially there was only one siege mechanic. By focusing on that and actually PLAYTESTING the game it managed to work alright.

Rome is a steaming pile of excrement and it always will be. You can't fix bad design.

The good news though is that EB will be out soon.

[Addario]

The good news though is that EB will be out soon.

How soon is soon??? a couple of years for that team probably xD Anyway I can't wait for it

[Alhaioth]

How soon is soon??? a couple of years for that team probably xD Anyway I can't wait for it

Apparently they sent out the first testing invites on 2^nd of January. Updates are being posted on the team's Twitter account daily. I suppose there is still a lot of work to be done and there are months of waiting ahead, but one beautiful day, the mod will be out...

[lawandorder82]

The seiges in my game work fine for me on my videos the ai does takeing ram to the gate ladders to the wall and seige towers on the walls

[General Maximus]

The seiges in my game work fine for me on my videos the ai does takeing ram to the gate ladders to the wall and seige towers on the walls

Does repeatedly advertising your videos here really fix the Warscape engine problems that cannot be fixed at all?

[Modestus]

The seiges in my game work fine for me on my videos the ai does takeing ram to the gate ladders to the wall and seige towers on the walls

I think your missing the point the AI does use ladders and rams but only sometimes and usually not very well, it also tends not to support the troops climbing the ladders and almost never sends new units as reinforcements up those ladders.

What appears to be happening is that a unit already attached to siege equipment at the start of a battle has the ability to move forward against a wall or a gate if they manage to reach the wall and climb it correctly (in many cases they cannot even do this) they are essentially on their own and once they are defeated or get stuck the AI will then revert to torching the gate.

This type of behaviour is very similar to the behaviour of units in ETW but obviously in ETW the unit could use a rope however just like in RTW2 units fight in a piecemeal fashion and can easily be defeated since there is no real coordinated attack.

In RTW1 almost every single piece of siege equipment from ladders to siege towers to rams would be used and usually all at the same time. Units without siege equipment would also follow the first units up any ladders in an attempt to take a wall, basically there was a simply goal and that was to make multiply breeches in the enemies defences.
.

In RTW1 the aim was to try and create a siege battle, first on the campaign map by forcing you to wait one turn unless you had artillery and then on the tactical map by creating an approximation of what a real assault or even a sally may look like.

In RTW2 the aim was to try and avoid sieges altogether and if there was an assault (forget about a sally) to just try and get the AI to the bloody wall.



I think as a test you should defend your walls with troops (archers and infantry) and see how the AI reacts, it would be interesting to know if the AI behaves differently to a well defended wall.

[lawandorder82]

Correct videos are proof pictures are not and I played a lot of segies and the ai is fine for my usa game

[Tr0tskY]

Be honest, did you watch the videos I just posted?

I know you didn't because they are longer than the amount of time you took to respond to my post.