What are the current General bodyguards and what should the be?

[Sir Aroun]

I know the gerudo bodyguard are Marauders and they should beMounted Marauders.

What are the other bodyguards for the other factions and do they fit the idea of a general's bodyguard unit.

If you what to know that I think is the ideal bodyguard unit is, it is a elit unit that is not the factions most elite unit, a.k.a. you would not make hyrule's bodyguard Ironclad Elites or Mounted Hyrulean Knights (unless their was no other way of training them), but Castle Guards or Hyrulean Knights would be ok. Having So lore linking the to the post helps to.
Edit: "they" not "the" in the title, sorry

[Jakeford]

Actually General bodyguards are oftenly elites. Here are some of the current bodyguards.

Hyrule-Iron Clads
Ordona-Goat Lords
Labrynna-Palace Watch
Forces of Twilight-Twilight Messengers
Darknut-Masters
ikana-Noblemen
Zora-Shock Troops

[Sir Aroun]

Actually General bodyguards are oftenly elites. Here are some of the current bodyguards.

Hyrule-Iron Clads
Ordona-Goat Lords
Labrynna-Palace Watch
Forces of Twilight-Twilight Messengers
Darknut-Masters
ikana-Noblemen
Zora-Shock Troops

ok:


Hyrule: no (see OP)
Ordona: REALLY NO (Horsemen would be better)
Labrynna: that sounds right
FoT: ok, but Bonemold Monks seem to fit better
Darknut: that looks good
Ikana: ok
Zora: while this is ok I think the new blademasters would fix better.

[Jakeford]

ok:


Hyrule: no (see OP)
Ordona: REALLY NO (Horsemen would be better)
Labrynna: that sounds right
FoT: ok, but Bonemold Monks seem to fit better
Darknut: that looks good
Ikana: ok
Zora: while this is ok I think the new blademasters would fix better.

I am fine with your opinion but you should remember that just because a unit is powerful or very powerful doesn't necessary make it OP.

[Sir Aroun]

I am fine with your opinion but you should remember that just because a unit is powerful or very powerful doesn't necessary make it OP.

yes but let us keep in mind that 1) you can make generals in this mod, and 2) that just because they get elite uints does not mean that they should get units that are much better the other generals or the most elite units. Ex. Gerudo bodyguard are Marauders but the Hyrule bodyguard are Iron Clads Elites, how is that fair?

[Aleatorio]

Since when does Hyrule`s generals use Ironclad elites as bodyguards? Are we talking of generic generals or heroes included? I´m currently playing a campaing with thw KoH in the new version and every general other than the heroes use Hylian infantry.

I rather have heroes with elite bodyguards and regular generals with superior but not the most elites unit, pretty much what Sir Auron said.

With that said, since you can make generals, you will have some heroes and depending on the faction access to mercenary heroes (I actually don´t know how well that is implemented, I have never done that but I saw Lortano recruit Ilia in one of his videos) maybe they are ok with mid-tier soldiers.

[Aleatorio]

Well, even with the powers it would still be ok for heroes to have better bodyguards, but is just my preference.

Regarding ranged bodyguards I don´t see why that would be a probleM. In fact one of the Zelda princesses has is own unique bodyguard of archers, and in many mods some generals, both generic and unique, have ranged bodyguards. It would still feel a bit weird for gunners to be bodyguards, if Apani´s suggestion of giving pistols to Knights of Ambi is accepted they would make a good bodyguard unit. Once again that is just my preference, it should be ok with gunners as bodyguards (Although maybe impractical, if you put a unit in front to guard then they can´t shoot without friendly fire most of the time, the same goes por pistols but the Knights at leats can defend thenselves in meleee).

For the Gerudo I think dune archers or mounted dune archers are a good alternative, some factions like Lanaryu have different bodyguards for generic generals (maidens and conscripts I think) so they could get either mounted marauders or one of the other two, they are the "best archers" faction after all.

For Lanaryu the problem with Guardian maidens is numbers, they have very few. If done like you suggest with the Truthbearers and they get proper numbers they should be fine.

I think we are supposed to get mounted Hyrulean knigths, is just a bug that needs fixing or something. They would be a bit too good in my opinion, but if there is a unit in the future between the mounted recruits and the knights that would be the way to go.

I pretty much agree with the rest, I suppose more factions could get to "choose" from different bodyguards like I suggested for the Gerudo but we probably should wait until most units are implemented for that. After all we just get a bunch of new units in the last version and Neph have already shown us a couple more in the announcements. Who knows what units are still to be implemented?

[Sir Aroun]

Well, even with the powers it would still be ok for heroes to have better bodyguards, but is just my preference.

Regarding ranged bodyguards I don´t see why that would be a probleM. In fact one of the Zelda princesses has is own unique bodyguard of archers, and in many mods some generals, both generic and unique, have ranged bodyguards. It would still feel a bit weird for gunners to be bodyguards, if Apani´s suggestion of giving pistols to Knights of Ambi is accepted they would make a good bodyguard unit. Once again that is just my preference, it should be ok with gunners as bodyguards (Although maybe impractical, if you put a unit in front to guard then they can´t shoot without friendly fire most of the time, the same goes por pistols but the Knights at leats can defend thenselves in meleee).

For the Gerudo I think dune archers or mounted dune archers are a good alternative, some factions like Lanaryu have different bodyguards for generic generals (maidens and conscripts I think) so they could get either mounted marauders or one of the other two, they are the "best archers" faction after all.

For Lanaryu the problem with Guardian maidens is numbers, they have very few. If done like you suggest with the Truthbearers and they get proper numbers they should be fine.

I think we are supposed to get mounted Hyrulean knigths, is just a bug that needs fixing or something. They would be a bit too good in my opinion, but if there is a unit in the future between the mounted recruits and the knights that would be the way to go.

I pretty much agree with the rest, I suppose more factions could get to "choose" from different bodyguards like I suggested for the Gerudo but we probably should wait until most units are implemented for that. After all we just get a bunch of new units in the last version and Neph have already shown us a couple more in the announcements. Who knows what units are still to be implemented?

I know that the Palace Watch really should be the bodyguard but I just what a way to get gunners out sooner.

[Apani]

Imo Bodyguards should be standalone units with very low numbers but elite quality. As it stands now, generals in the campaign get regular units as bodyguards, but in the EDU there are specifical units designed to be general bodyguards.

Like this:

type             Ironclad Elites
dictionary       Ironclad_Elites      ; Landsknecht Pikemen
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_none
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Ironclad_Elites , 80, 0, 1.8375, 0.45
officer         hyl_flagman3
mount_effect     horse +2
attributes       hide_forest, command, frighten_mounted, can_withdraw, pike
move_speed_mod   0.7
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 6, square, phalanx
stat_health      1, 2
stat_pri         9, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 105, 1
;stat_pri_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr    ap, light_spear
stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  15, 9, 0, metal
;stat_armour_ex   0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        11
stat_ground      0, -3, -1, -2
stat_mental      15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        3, 3920, 640, 105, 80, 1960, 4, 1960
armour_ug_levels 0
ownership        hylian
era 0            hylian
era 1            hylian
era 2            hylian
info_pic_dir      hylian
card_pic_dir      hylian
;unit_info        11, 0, 4

type             Ironclad Elites_gen
dictionary       Ironclad_Elites_gen      ; Landsknecht Pikemen
category         infantry
class            heavy
voice_type       Heavy
banner faction   main_none
banner holy      crusade
soldier          Ironclad_Elites , 16, 0, 1.8375, 0.45
officer         hyl_flagman3
mount_effect     horse +2
attributes       hide_forest, command, frighten_mounted, can_withdraw, pike, no_custom, general_unit
move_speed_mod   0.7
formation        1.2, 1.2, 2.4, 2.4, 8, square, phalanx
stat_health      1, 3
stat_pri         7, 6, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_blade, piercing, spear, 105, 1
;stat_pri_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_pri_attr    ap, light_spear
stat_sec         0, 0, no, 0, 0, melee, melee_simple, blunt, none, 25, 1
;stat_sec_ex      0, 0, 0
stat_sec_attr    no
stat_pri_armour  16, 11, 0, metal
;stat_armour_ex   0, 0, 0, 0, 4, 0, 0, flesh
stat_sec_armour  0, 0, flesh
stat_heat        11
stat_ground      0, -3, -1, -2
stat_mental      15, disciplined, highly_trained
stat_charge_dist 40
stat_fire_delay  0
stat_food        60, 300
stat_cost        3, 1040, 0, 105, 80, 520, 4, 520
armour_ug_levels 0
ownership        hylian
era 0            hylian
era 1            hylian
era 2            hylian
info_pic_dir      hylian
card_pic_dir      hylian
;unit_info        11, 0, 4

[Jakeford]

What do you guys have against goat lords? Right now the only way to get them is to train a General and the regular horsemen if the mod was balanced right wouldn't be able to contend with cav units such as mounted Hyrule Knights and Mounted Fire warriors. If it was balanced right the regular horsemen would be the best of the light cavalry and the Goat lords would be the best of the heavy.

[Sir Aroun]

What do you guys have against goat lords? Right now the only way to get them is to train a General and the regular horsemen if the mod was balanced right wouldn't be able to contend with cav units such as mounted Hyrule Knights and Mounted Fire warriors. If it was balanced right the regular horsemen would be the best of the light cavalry and the Goat lords would be the best of the heavy.

1) Are you sure that they can not be trained any other way? (then they may be ok then, may. defiantly not if they can be trained)
2) Why are you bring up the mounted versions of Hyrule Knights and Fire Warriors? The General bodyguards I proposed were the non-mounted versions and we are only comparing bodyguards to other bodyguards.
3) Because Goat Lords are so much more powerful then any other General's Bodyguard current or proposed. They are literally the MOST ELITE unit in the Ordonan faction. No other faction gets its MOST ELITE unit as a bodyguard.

[HD.Mordecai]

I don't care if are OP or not, for me it makes more sense if the Ordonian generals unit is Goat Lords.

[Sir Aroun]

I don't care if are OP or not, for me it makes more sense if the Ordonian generals unit is Goat Lords.

general yes, bodyguard no.

[Aleatorio]

Well, that´s a matter of preference. You can go for logic or balance.
Anyway, right now it seems a bit more random than I thought. Every general in my Hyrule campaing got Hyrule infantry until the last one I recruited suddenly got Ironclad elites.
I Wonder if it´s just random, change with the turns or what.

Wich actually brings something to the table, maybe generals should get basic units as bodyguards in the beggining and as the game goes on they get better units (If that is not the case already). After all, in late game the impact a OP units is much less.

[Apani]

Factions getting completely nonsensical bodyguards for generals is just the result of unfinished programming. Anyways, according to RC2.0 Bodyguards should have very low numbers (16 infantry, 8 cavalry) and -2 Attack and +2 Defense Skill. I also think General bodyguards should be mounted units, althought all cavalry seems to be OP due to a ridicolous trampling power. Do not worry, I'll cover all of this with the Real Combat revision.

[Emrys]

I can see where you are coming from with not wanting the Goat lords to be the bodyguard. I did, however, read the description and it did not say that oat lords were generals. All that was sad was that they were capable fighters. That being said, it does make sense that the general be the most veteran and skilled soldier among the farmers, but it also makes sense that he would surround himself with other men that are similarly skilled and trained as he is.

[Sir Aroun]

I can see where you are coming from with not wanting the Goat lords to be the bodyguard. I did, however, read the description and it did not say that goat lords were generals. All that was sad was that they were capable fighters. That being said, it does make sense that the general be the most veteran and skilled soldier among the farmers, but it also makes sense that he would surround himself with other men that are similarly skilled and trained as he is.

yes but meta balance must also be taken into account. If you give Ordona Goat Lords we have to give every faction their most elite unit, and that opens a whole new can of worms.

[Emrys]

Balance can be achieved by changing the availability of the units. Yes the Ordonan General might be more powerful than the general of the Lanayru, but the goat lords are not as accessible. Make it so that the standard goat lords are harder to get leaving only the militia level troops of Ordona to make it balanced. The Roster itself balances itself out in the end.

[Sir Aroun]

Balance can be achieved by changing the availability of the units. Yes the Ordonan General might be more powerful than the general of the Lanayru, but the goat lords are not as accessible. Make it so that the standard goat lords are harder to get leaving only the militia level troops of Ordona to make it balanced. The Roster itself balances itself out in the end.

I think that is a bug.

[Mattwensley]

A general's bodyguard can be overpowered, as Total War is not won through these units alone. Ordona has a weakness in lacking strong line units and professional troops as a whole, whereas Lanayru has an advantage in this area. Goat Lords are powerful yes, and maybe need to be nerfed a little, but are the core of a Ordonian battle group's hard hitters. Horsemen don't last long in melee and decent line soldiers are few and far between, whereas Lanayru gets professional soldiers far earlier. Goat Lords themselves suffer from ranged attacks and have low numbers, compared to other bodyguard units.