Idea for Nomads

[quaz601]

I'm new to modding, working on a unit sub-mod for nomads, the idea is to make a new melee cavalry unit available to all nomad factions they would use steppe axes and I wanted them to be able to serve a dismounted infantry if needed this way nomad armies can stay mostly cavalry and still have someone take walls and breach gates. Wanted input and advice on how to make this work, especially how to adjust strength, sizes, costs. Right now I've based them off of Greek Citizen Calvary stats but with slightly better stats and morale. Since most nomadic armies were mainly cavalry I thought this would fit with DEL.

[akvilonn]

Do it! Love the idea, axes on horses, all nomads and moving quick.
Don't know how to help you with creating such unit, but yes, make it stronger than regular cheap cavalry, they are skilled horsemen after all.
Better yet make two similar units and give different one to different nomad nation, so we have variety.

[tomFoolery]

I'm not too fond of giving factions unhistoric units, but I'm sure during a nomad campaign the player would inevitably be up against a city siege (there's no historical evidence of a nomadic cavalry society ever actually being in that situation, is there?), so I do think it might be a nice idea to give them some unit that could be useful in taking walls. We should be concerned with history, but also it's possible alternative outcomes when need be.

[quaz601]

I'm not too fond of giving factions unhistoric units, but I'm sure during a nomad campaign the player would inevitably be up against a city siege (there's no historical evidence of a nomadic cavalry society ever actually being in that situation, is there?), so I do think it might be a nice idea to give them some unit that could be useful in taking walls. We should be concerned with history, but also it's possible alternative outcomes when need be.

the idea is not to make an infantry type unit but an melee cav unit that can fight on foot if necessary. Nomads should have a wide variety of calvary. True not much is known about warfare amongst the nomadic tribes. Most of what I know is from reading about the Scythians. What i've read is they were most famous for calvary who were well armed and well armored often carrying not only bows but swords, spears even axes. So you have a very versatile soldier. If a Scythian's horse got killed by an arrow or spear I'm pretty sure he would keep fighting on foot.
Also there have been stories of Scythians seiges, King Palacus of Lesser Scythia laid seige to Chersonese but was defeated by Mithirdates the Great. This was a rare occurance but it did happen

[m_1512]

there's no historical evidence of a nomadic cavalry society ever actually being in that situation, is there?

There is actually, just not in that time period. The Mongols invaded the Crimean coastal cities which were held by European maritime states in the Medieval times. There are records that the Mongols lobbed human heads of diseased victims (of plague) into those cities. When the Europeans evacuated the cities, they brought the Black Death to Europe.

But yes, this could be a good idea for a submod.

[Scythion]

There is actually, just not in that time period. The Mongols invaded the Crimean coastal cities which were held by European maritime states in the Medieval times. There are records that the Mongols lobbed human heads of diseased victims (of plague) into those cities. When the Europeans evacuated the cities, they brought the Black Death to Europe.

But yes, this could be a good idea for a submod.

The mongols in their campaign of Eu usually avoided stone forts, but at the siege of Baghdad they used artilery.(if I am correct)

[Augustusng]

The Mongols, under Genghis Khan particularly, were always changing their tactics to adapt to new circumstances. I think they were among the first armies to use cannons and gunpowder weapons (and brought those into Europe with them). However, they usually had foreign engineers to actually build and use artillery. Also, they typically did not have a large baggage train following the army, but instead built siege weapons when they were needed from locally available materials.

But maybe that discussion is better off whenever Medieval 3 comes out...

As far as the Scythians, would it be at all feasible to have a cavalry unit that has a larger unit size than normal, so they could dismount and be effective as infantry? Of course, they would probably be too powerful in open field battles, so that might not work.

[luck_ponte]

As far as the Scythians, would it be at all feasible to have a cavalry unit that has a larger unit size than normal, so they could dismount and be effective as infantry? Of course, they would probably be too powerful in open field battles, so that might not work.

Although it would need balancing/fine tuning, I don't believe that would be THAT much OP. Actually, other factions, such as the Germanic ones could benefit from this feature since they used a lot of dragoon tactics (charging in on horse-back and dismounting to fight). However, considering the steppe factions it would indeed be odd to see them dismounting in open battles (it's not like they wanted to fight on foot and stuff)

[luck_ponte]

Yes, they learned siegecraft from Chinese prisioners and would storm cities if needed. They did prefer to catch or force the enemy out the walls and fight in open ground, but were very competent at sieges. However, on a side-note m_1512, it's more likely (and more accepted in academic circles) that the black plague was transmitted through trade (in the form of lice in the rats that infested ships at the time) rather than war. Although it's plausible that mongols would throw corpses over the defenses and that they would help spread disease, those would be more for morale effect, not exactly for biological warfare purposes. However, such trade was only possible because of the Mongols (who restored the silk road), so yeah...still their fault kinda =p

[Khamac]

I think all nomad factions need 2 things:
- More melee cavalry because they live on saddle but easily defeat in close horse combat. This is insane.
- A reform when combine 3 nomad capital that bring their unique units together.

[tomFoolery]

Oh, I didn't expect this to get resurrected. Interesting info. I suppose no nomadic cavalry societies of the period got in that situation, but we'd say they generally had enough contact with hellenic and eastern cultures to have a fair idea of how to handle a siege?