Anabasis Realistic Campaign Movement for DeI

[Anabasis]

I will see if it is possible to force garrisons to stay put, or at least to change the probability that they will join. Might be worth experimenting with.

[Anabasis]

By the way, I also recommend using Yarkis' food penalty mod along with my three mods.

[Anabasis]

The world in 257 using realistic movement mod, diplomacy mod, recruitment mod, and Yurkis' food penalty mod. I am quite sure now that the complete province CAI priority works.

Spoiler Alert, click show to read: 

[krunsh]

I must say I am a bit paranoid about using multiple small mods (I am already using DeI, GEM, Matched Combat Be Gone, Special Effects Enhancement mod, and Bullgod icons + the DeI icons submod.). I find this is already a lot of keep track of, especially for multiplayer campaigns, and there is always less certainty that it has been well tested (A full campaign is such a big investment of time.). I think I may go back to the basic "No forced March" mod that was put up by The Dude and wait for a bundle or more players to recommend these.

I would not want all these small mods to conflict with the balance established by DeI. I'll keep my eyes on this though and I hope that something more concrete is implemented directly in DeI at some point!

[Anabasis]

That's the beauty of the system. Choice is with the user

[Iltedge]

I tested those change, and though i'am for realism this time i have the feeling that the movements for army are wayyyy to long. I know they are not even close to what a roman legion could have done over three month, but it seems to me that it breaks the balance of the map.

Cause the map map is ABSOLUTELY not realistic. Each territory (except steppe and desert one) are made 50% of city, 40% of forest/mountain and 10% of acces to the citys ... (subjectiv numbers ^^). If you go at war now, all you can do is fight for settlements, and unlike in R1 (and the mods i used to play) you can't bypass a city and go for those behind.

But maybe this is a balance issue with other mods I have ( such as yukishiro's one). Anyway I have the feeling it's unbalance right now, but because of the map design.

[Anabasis]

The zones of control would make it difficult to bypass hostile settlements in most areas of the map. The effect is intended to give forces their historical rate of movement in friendly territory, but not allow them to carry out military operations over unrealistic distances and areas. It is also intended to make up for the absence of any reaction movement in the design, something that should definitely have been in there at the original 1 year scale, and should be there at a 3 month scale.

[Mhantra]

The zones of control would make it difficult to bypass hostile settlements in most areas of the map. The effect is intended to give forces their historical rate of movement in friendly territory, but not allow them to carry out military operations over unrealistic distances and areas. It is also intended to make up for the absence of any reaction movement in the design, something that should definitely have been in there at the original 1 year scale, and should be there at a 3 month scale.

Hmm, this makes sense. I have been loving this game, even more with DeI, but definitely have been annoyed to no end by the constant ambush easy-mode battles. So I went to the basic no-forced march mod. Loved it. Loved it! Except...man, the pace of the game, bringing my army down from the back end of my large Boii empire is literally impossible now. Well, most of the time, there is no sense in even trying. So what I started doing is literally dispatching all troops and general and creating a new army from scratch because it is FASTER that way!

I will give this mod a try. At first I was concerned that it would lead to an ability to exploit the AI and just roll deep into their territory, but that larger areas of control, that may just fix that.

[LevinS89]

The world in 257 using realistic movement mod, diplomacy mod, recruitment mod, and Yurkis' food penalty mod. I am quite sure now that the complete province CAI priority works.

Playing Suebi or Seleukidai? Just started a campaign as Macedon and Rome is breathing down my neck, taking Apollonia and trying to conquer the rest of Macedon as I am writing this. All in all, this mod drastically changed the way I behave in the game now, thank you!

Edit: Just encountered an annoying issue, I assume it has to do with this mod as it didn't happen prior to installing it.

Problem: When I move my army over land or sea, I am not allowed to move for some turns, even if I haven't used up any movement points and even if the yellow line clearly indicates that I am able to move or attack a settlement as it is in range. There is nothing blocking my path though, no other faction blockading the ports or anything... this can get annoying after a while, especially if you have strictly planned on making a certain move in a certain amount of time :/

[Anabasis]

Playing Suebi or Seleukidai?

Playing Pontus actually

As for the problem, I have not encountered that. Can you tell me more about the conditions in which it happens?

[freelancerX]

I have encountered that as well, I had a navy that i could not bring near Novo carthago because of some unseen force, just could not get near, i had plenty of movement points, but my navy just would no move closer, I figured it must have been some other navy or army that was near but i couldn't see due to the fog of war and my navy wouldn't go into the enemy reinforcement zone.

It is unfortunate that we cant reduce the zone of reinforcement zones of settlements, i think this mod is perfect the worst thing about it thought is the fact that settlement reinforcement zones are waay too big, should basically be only very near the settlement. or at least the garrison shouldn't join a fight unless an army is literally right outside the settlement.

[Anabasis]

Yes. Of course, we need the large zones of control, but I will see what I can do about garrison participation in battles near settlements. On the one hand, at that scale, it simulates the fact that you are attacking a region. On the other hand, garrisons should protect the settlements.

[LevinS89]

I have encountered that as well, I had a navy that i could not bring near Novo carthago because of some unseen force, just could not get near, i had plenty of movement points, but my navy just would no move closer, I figured it must have been some other navy or army that was near but i couldn't see due to the fog of war and my navy wouldn't go into the enemy reinforcement zone.

I had a similar problem to yours mate, and sorry for not getting back to you sooner Anabasis. It happened to me when Rhodes declared war on me in the 20th turn in my Macedon campaign. I arranged an army and set out to see what I could do against that, sending a spy (on a different path) as a recon. After noticing that, disregarding the seasons, my army was MUCH slower, i.e. had less movement points, than on land (I figured that somewhat realistic (?) as commanders on land have less experience at the ways of the sea than naval commanders), I began to make my crawl over to their island. My spy, having scouted the area, could not encounter any armed forces except for the garisson. I figured that this was my chance! I managed to get within "one-turn-range" of the settlement and began preparations, including sending in my spy to sabotage. The next turn, however, I could not attack due to unseen reason. I was in range with my fleet and was planning to auto-resolve the siege as I had already sabotaged their garisson twice but it was denied to me wholly.

I had another incident regarding this matter whilst early on in my Macedon campaign, conquering Antheia. However, there I figured it must've been the enlarged reinforcement zone that prevented me to attack, since the zone markers from two armies outside the settlement and the garisson's zone marker tightly overlapped each other, resulting in said enlarged reinforcement zone. It simply confused me, since there was no indication regarding the movement-line that an attack would not be possible.

Of course, we need the large zones of control, but I will see what I can do about garrison participation in battles near settlements.

I would highly appreciate this mate! This mod makes the game increasingly enjoyable. Maybe there is a way to give the AI (and ourselves) an option whether to send the garisson out to reinforce the attacked/attacking army or not. However, given the "freedom" you have to modify this game, I don't think that would be possible in the near future. Nevertheless, I can only repeat myself. Great mod. Can't wait for DEI 0.7 and according implementation/updates for this mod.

[Anabasis]

I will see if I can track down the problem.

[est Dudus]

Hey, so with the added cost of naval landings have you seen any differnce. I am looking forward to testing your mod for my lets play. Many of the large empires in my capaign have big money (which they should). But I would like money to be tight but at the moment the CAI can't Handel that and won't field armies. Does your other mod make it cheap for the ai to field armies? I think that could be the only solution would be to be able to field large armies cheaply but make it expensive to take actions. I would like to limit income but don't want huge empires with like one1/2 stack army.

[Mhantra]

Boy, this mod changes things massively. The ability to shoot straight from one settlement to attack another was startling, at first. Then I noticed that not only would the AI usually have one big army within range to support, but sometimes more than one.

Something happened yesterday, though, that I am not sure what to think about. Seriously, don't know if it is a positive or negative, even neutral. I attacked a full stack enemy army that was between two settlements, one of them a walled settlement. When I attacked this army, the smaller settlement sent its garrison out, yet the walled settlement didn't? And the large stack sitting in the walled settlement didn't reinforce either (I think this is good). I could be wrong, and maybe the walled settlement wasn't in range, but I am 99% sure the army I was attacking was closer to the walled settlement. But that isn't really the issue.

The issue was the the smaller settlement sents its puny garrison to support. I won the battle, and then guess what? That poor small settlement had zero garrison. Nothing. So I walked in.

Is this exploitable? What are the AI's capabilities to NOT support with garrison in a battle halfway across the teritory? Can it make determinations that it would be better to not suicide its army by sending all walled city defenses out into the field? Maybe this really is more efficient, an all or nothing battle instead of two small ones?

Either way, I love the mod, will definitely keep it. Oh and the range of agents is kind of humongous.

[danthemanbuddy]

This is a must have submod guys. About 100 turns into my Rome VH campaign and all my neighbors are huge as they should be.

[Anabasis]

First time I hear of a garrison not reinforcing. Interesting. I will do more testing.

As for the agent range, moving one person is a lot easier than moving an army

[Kurisu Paifuaa]

...
Something happened yesterday, though, that I am not sure what to think about. Seriously, don't know if it is a positive or negative, even neutral. I attacked a full stack enemy army that was between two settlements, one of them a walled settlement. When I attacked this army, the smaller settlement sent its garrison out, yet the walled settlement didn't? And the large stack sitting in the walled settlement didn't reinforce either (I think this is good). I could be wrong, and maybe the walled settlement wasn't in range, but I am 99% sure the army I was attacking was closer to the walled settlement. But that isn't really the issue.
...
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Something does seem to be wonky with the UI reinforcement indicators (the arrows). Either that or there are undocumented, non-obvious rules in play. One of those could be the hidden terrain type on the campaign map (you have only visual cues to figure it out). Movement cost varies according to terrain and road development... this might affect reinforcement range indirectly. Or not

I started working on a mod-mod that shifts the extended movement, ZoC and reinforcement ranges to the general's skill tree. As an experiment, it's going pretty well thus far. This way, you don't get exaggerated garrison ranges and it adds some nice decisions to character development. But while testing values and getting a feel for various range increments, I definitely notice the inconsistencies with distance to armies and settlements, as you mention.

@Anabasis Do you know the max reinforcement range modifier? Everything over 100% looks the same to me , but I may be missing something. Also, do you know whether the global value (in campaign_variables) can be non-integer?

[upsettingshorts]

I wanted to like this mod, but the consequences of the reinforcement range are... crazy.

A skirmish between fleets way off the Western coast of Sicily draws the garrison fleets of 3 cities, an army garrisoned in two of them in transports, and what seems like every other ship in the central Mediterranean.

On land, there are no minor engagements, no isolating individual armies and destroying them in detail. Conflicts are reduced into a tiny handful of huuuuuge decisive battles with little or no regard for your operational strategy. After all, what does every army's position matter if they're all going to be drawn into the same battle in the same location at once? I like the occasional massive dogpile, sure. But this?

I basically like everything except the huge reinforcement radius, which I hate to the extent that I'd rather not have the mod at all. An option lacking any changes to it, or reducing it to vanilla levels after the movement changes it introduces, would be most welcome. I don't spend a huge amount of time around here, so if I'm the only one who doesn't like the huge reinforcement range, then feel free to let my post slide.