Finland?

[The Aztec]

I'm sorry if this is not important to some people but if i am not mistaken, i believe that Finland is not in this game. Can anyone confirm this?

[Arakorn]

Of what I've seen from the map, no, they're not, Denmark is, and and the southernmost part of Sweden, maybe even Norway, but unfortunately, no Finland! It's basically just the same map as from RTW but with America. They could've expanded north, east and south, but no, they expanded west, ove rhte goddamn ocean!

Are you from Finland like me or why do you care?

[Spart]

Finland FTW! I think Finland is a separate province, isn't it? Capital is Helsinki, I quess ( A bit weird, since it was founded in 1550?) I saw a screenshot some day, could someone post it?

[GVP]

If any part of Finland is in the campaing map it's gonna be a rebel region.

[Dave of the West]

They could've expanded north,

They did.

God bless Scotland.

[The Aztec]

I am not from finland i am canadian and in MTW i always liked to conquer the north and i will miss findland dearly in this game.

[Scarlett Letterman]

and i will miss findland dearly in this game.

your soldiers wont trust me.

[selenius4tsd]

Everyone in this thread: Let's pretend to be Finnish... yeah! :tooth:

Happy Finnish Day - 1 October

[warcommanderTW]

Finland is in the game and is one of the provinces. Read the article of Russians in IGN to find out, that Helsinki is a rebel town.

[Arakorn]

Eh, Helsinki? Helsinki was founded in 16th century! How can ti be in the game then?? Why isn't Turku there instead?

[warcommanderTW]

Eh, Helsinki? Helsinki was founded in 15th century! How can ti be in the game then?? Why isn't Turku there instead?

Well, don't ask me. In my opinion Hämeenlinna and Turku would have been much more historically accurate.

[Spart]

Actually, 16th century. But I don't really care, as long as it is there...
Nice to see you here, Warcommander =)

[Hansa]

Eh, Helsinki? Helsinki was founded in 15th century! How can ti be in the game then?? Why isn't Turku there instead?

Well, they have done the same with Norway, Oslo is capital city. In medieval times Oslo had perhaps 1000 inhabitans, a spot on the map. Bergen was by far the most important city, possibly ten thousand citicens, Nidaros was also far more important than Oslo, guess Stockholm (founded in the 13th century) will be capital of Sweden. Thank God for the realism mods. Thank you for your work on Scandinavia CA, where is Manchester in England, and I think the capital of the northernmost province in America should be Washington D.C.

CA should definetly be expanding the map all the way north, but again, realism mods will save the day.

[martinkun167]

They could have at least included more of the eastern lands, like Iran and such...i mean on the screenshots, i only see a tiiiny tip of the caspian sea, which is ridiculous..

[Amroth]

The first mod team to include Norway as a faction will get a case or two of Norwegian beer :tacticalw

[Spart]

Well, they have done the same with Norway, Oslo is capital city. In medieval times Oslo had perhaps 1000 inhabitans, a spot on the map. Bergen was by far the most important city, possibly ten thousand citicens, Nidaros was also far more important than Oslo, guess Stockholm (founded in the 13th century) will be capital of Sweden. Thank God for the realism mods. Thank you for your work on Scandinavia CA, where is Manchester in England, and I think the capital of the northernmost province in America should be Washington D.C.

CA should definetly be expanding the map all the way north, but again, realism mods will save the day.

Well, luckily we can change the city names now, so that shouldn't be a big problem.
And hopefully we'll soon have some mods that expand map too.

[Ringeck]

Well, they have done the same with Norway, Oslo is capital city. In medieval times Oslo had perhaps 1000 inhabitans, a spot on the map. Bergen was by far the most important city, possibly ten thousand citicens, Nidaros was also far more important than Oslo, guess Stockholm (founded in the 13th century) will be capital of Sweden. Thank God for the realism mods. Thank you for your work on Scandinavia CA, where is Manchester in England, and I think the capital of the northernmost province in America should be Washington D.C.

CA should definetly be expanding the map all the way north, but again, realism mods will save the day.

Clarifying this, in 1080 neither Bergen nor Oslo were the largest city in Norway - Nidaros was. If some modders start the game in 1066, as I hope they'll do (re-fighting Stamford Bridge? Mmmmm.) Bergen has probably not really been founded as a city - it is not even a "beach-place" (trading town) at that time. Bergen grew larger in the high middle ages as a result of the southern trade - around 1300, when it lost the status of capital to Oslo for strategic (closer to Sweden and Denmark) and state-economic reasons (Oslo was less dominated by foreign traders with extraterritorial rights) reasons, it had perhaps 7000 adult inhabitants to Oslo, Tønsberg and Nidaros, who all had 3000 or so. In continental terms, all norwegian cities were spots on the map (and Norway, with a population of perhaps half a million, was severely underpopulated).

Bergen kepts it status as the largest city i Norway into the 19th century, again largerly as a result of the trade, but would never gain political preeminence again - once the western sea focus of the norwegian kingdom was lost, Bergen had no real strategic importance anymore, and defenses were neglected to the point where even Hansa-allied Vitalienbrüder could raid and occupy the city with impunity in the 1400s, while the eastern cities were too heavily defended to risk it.

So, in 1080 (or 1066), Nidaros should be the "capital" (although due to the nature of norwegian kingship, there was not really any capital until after the civil wars, and barely then until the 14th century) of the norwegian province, and due to the limitations of any strategy game, so it will remain until the game ends. Should the period any city was the "capital" be counted, Oslo is in fact the best choice - it was the capital in the period when the concept of a capital actually began to mean something in Norway.

[Hansa]

Clarifying this, in 1080 neither Bergen nor Oslo were the largest city in Norway - Nidaros was. If some modders start the game in 1066, as I hope they'll do (re-fighting Stamford Bridge? Mmmmm.) Bergen has probably not really been founded as a city - it is not even a "beach-place" (trading town) at that time. Bergen grew larger in the high middle ages as a result of the southern trade - around 1300, when it lost the status of capital to Oslo for strategic (closer to Sweden and Denmark) and state-economic reasons (Oslo was less dominated by foreign traders with extraterritorial rights) reasons, it had perhaps 7000 adult inhabitants to Oslo, Tønsberg and Nidaros, who all had 3000 or so. In continental terms, all norwegian cities were spots on the map (and Norway, with a population of perhaps half a million, was severely underpopulated).

Bergen kepts it status as the largest city i Norway into the 19th century, again largerly as a result of the trade, but would never gain political preeminence again - once the western sea focus of the norwegian kingdom was lost, Bergen had no real strategic importance anymore, and defenses were neglected to the point where even Hansa-allied Vitalienbrüder could raid and occupy the city with impunity in the 1400s, while the eastern cities were too heavily defended to risk it.

So, in 1080 (or 1066), Nidaros should be the "capital" (although due to the nature of norwegian kingship, there was not really any capital until after the civil wars, and barely then until the 14th century) of the norwegian province, and due to the limitations of any strategy game, so it will remain until the game ends. Should the period any city was the "capital" be counted, Oslo is in fact the best choice - it was the capital in the period when the concept of a capital actually began to mean something in Norway.

Bergen recieved its city status (kjøpstad) in 1070 by King Olav Kyrre. Hence it is said to be founded then, although archeological evidence prove that it was a settlement before this (minimum 1030, but probably older). Nidaros is the oldest city in Norway (997), and would as you say most likely be the biggest city in Norway in 1080, hence I mentioned that it was far more important than Oslo. Therefore I would have no problem with Nidaros being regional capital although in the period as a whole (1080-1536) Bergen was by far the most important city in Norway. When it comes to losiing its capital status, you are right about the ''traveling kingship'' part, where capitals shifted (mainly between Nidaros and Bergen), but the reason for Oslo becoming capital was more the need for the king to strenghten royal control in the viken region, and keep that region in his realm, than Bergens lost importance.As for the german raider surprise attack, that vould have worked everywhere in Norway, Bergenhus was the biggest fortress in the land (possibly with the exeption of the fortress in Herjedalen, don't know how big that was)

Nidaros is a great provinvce capital option to Bergen, Oslo is still crap. At best having Oslo as capital is like creating Modern TW 1800-2006, having Brasil as one province with one city: Brasillia, I say do Rio de Janeiro or Sao Paolo.

[molonthegreat]

expand to the north of europe

[Matty_P]

yeah, scandinavia is totally neglected. well, more than it should be; supposing that the northern portion was of lesser value it might be reasonable to cut it off.

i mean, no offense to finland. they should have included the entire european continent...up to the urals and to the artic circle.