Request for my removal from the patrician rank

[Garbarsardar]

I make this request in public and not privately to the CdeC for two reasons:

First the Syntagma is unclear on the procedure to be followed in the specific case;

The Consilium de Civitate (CdeC) manages the granting and removal of the ranks of Civitate, Artifex and Patrician through votes as per the Patronization section of the Syntagma. In all CdeC votes associated with these ranks, a 75% majority of voting members is required in order to pass.

...and the Patronisation section does not deal with revoquing status.

Second because I would like to make the reason for this request public.

Since the rank of patrician today conferrs such "advantages", legislative proviledges but it also encapsulates a hightened sense of civic duty, I cannot be in good faith member of this rank since I was not voted into it.

I am aware that I fulfill all the requirments for Patricianship but this is not and should not be automatic.

I want to be a patrician but elected by my peers as per the Syntagma, and not appointed as one. Therefore I hereby request my removal from the rank.

Finally I want to urge all the patricians in a similar status (i.e. not voted in) to surrender themselves to the judgment of their peers.

Thank you,
Garb.

(you can also see the discussion here)

[Fabolous]

Hey Garb, here's some good reading if you haven't seen it... not that I think it will change your decision.

As for revoking your rank per the syntagma... gah, did that section get removed? *Mutters

It had it public anyways, so you're good.


. . . Gah, I swear I had something else to say. . . :hmmm:

[Garbarsardar]

It is indeed a nice discussion Fab, and thank you for the link (I was away...).

Still my point remains. I think it is the right choice, ethically speaking to stand for the rank. And it will help a new beginning here.

[Spiff]

From the current Syntagma it seems the CdeC will have to vote on whether to grant this request or not, a "no" being equal to having passed a Patricianship vote. It was indeed the case in the old syntagma that Citizens had the right to have their rank removed simply by asking.. i think.

[Fabolous]

From the current Syntagma it seems the CdeC will have to vote on whether to grant this request or not, a "no" being equal to having passed a Patricianship vote.

Where is that indicated? I don't see anything about demotion except for the one line garb mentioned.

It was indeed the case in the old syntagma that Citizens had the right to have their rank removed simply by asking.. i think.

It was. And still should be, the idea of someone not being able to resign there own rank would be rather ridculous, don't you think?

[Spiff]

It says the removal of ranks is determined by the cdec in votes, with a 75% majority required to pass. Since the Patronization act adds no further requirements to that statement, it pretty much stands as is with a simple vote taking place in the CdeC.

Ive just written a short amendment bill in the proth though so its all good

[Obi Wan Asterix]

I make this request in public and not privately to the CdeC for two reasons:

First the Syntagma is unclear on the procedure to be followed in the specific case;



...and the Patronisation section does not deal with revoquing status.

Second because I would like to make the reason for this request public.

Since the rank of patrician today conferrs such "advantages", legislative proviledges but it also encapsulates a hightened sense of civic duty, I cannot be in good faith member of this rank since I was not voted into it.

I am aware that I fulfill all the requirments for Patricianship but this is not and should not be automatic.

I want to be a patrician but elected by my peers as per the Syntagma, and not appointed as one. Therefore I hereby request my removal from the rank.

Finally I want to urge all the patricians in a similar status (i.e. not voted in) to surrender themselves to the judgment of their peers.

Thank you,
Garb.

(you can also see the discussion here)

Motion to deny this rank in the spirit of "voting you in" please second my motion if you feel the same....

[Silver Guard]

Can you not just put yourself under a new 'oting in' by the CdeC? If you pass that then you're good to go, as you have then been oted in

[Garbarsardar]

Can you not just put yourself under a new 'oting in' by the CdeC? If you pass that then you're good to go, as you have then been oted in

Nope, I have to be nominated. I cannot nominate myself...

I disagree with your actions, Garb, for a pretty simple reason; that being that as a staff member matters are put forward here that affect you. I could very much agree with resigning our status upon resignation from Staff status, so we get voted in at that point, but if anything I'd push a motion of all staff gaining patrician status for their tenure as staff members.

What being a staff member has to do with Patrician (ship?dome?). If staff members want to play democracy they have to submit to it.

Hehe, I intend to do the same thing (Demote myself to Civitates) the day I retire. Good show Garb.

...until the fat lady sings?

But my dear Garbling, won't this just create unnecessary paperwork (well, bytework)? I mean, you're a dead cert for patricianship. Even I got it, fer Chrissakes!

Although I guess you're probably making some kind of a point of principle here, which I lack the subtlety to intuit...

Nihilito, point of principle, indeed. You don't lack the subtlety, you just speak from a different position. You were not accused as being complacent and Quisling...

[Tom Paine]

What being a staff member has to do with Patrician (ship?dome?). If staff members want to play democracy they have to submit to it.

No power without accountability and no accountability without power. The Curia can, in theory, change things relating to our positions as Tribounoi. As such we need a say in the Curia. It can also have a limited say in site policy, which we enforce; again, we should thus have a say in its enforcement and policy itself. So... everything.

[Garbarsardar]

No power without accountability and no accountability without power. The Curia can, in theory, change things relating to our positions as Tribounoi. As such we need a say in the Curia. It can also have a limited say in site policy, which we enforce; again, we should thus have a say in its enforcement and policy itself. So... everything.

We need a say in the Curia? Well if we need it, here is the way: Voted by the CdeC. if not, not only we undermine the concept of the rank having the right to vote without being qualified or selected.

It's simple and it will take a couple of days. So what's the problem of being essentially certified by the CdeC?

[imb39]

does the 'v' key not work?

[Silver Guard]

Yes, sorry, my keyboard keeps playing up, first it was the 'l' now the 'v' requires me to punch it to type anything

[Tom Paine]

I disagree with your actions, Garb, for a pretty simple reason; that being that as a staff member matters are put forward here that affect you. I could very much agree with resigning our status upon resignation from Staff status, so we get voted in at that point, but if anything I'd push a motion of all staff gaining patrician status for their tenure as staff members.

[Belisarius]

Hehe, I intend to do the same thing (Demote myself to Civitates) the day I retire. Good show Garb.

[Nihil]

But my dear Garbling, won't this just create unnecessary paperwork (well, bytework)? I mean, you're a dead cert for patricianship. Even I got it, fer Chrissakes!

Although I guess you're probably making some kind of a point of principle here, which I lack the subtlety to intuit... :hmmm:

[Tom Paine]

Because surely if we are unworthy we would not be Tribounoi? What really undermines it is the idea that one should feel pressurised into resigning from it ("You were not accused as being complacent and Quisling..."); what really undermines it is the idea that a Tribounos is not, while in his position, by definition worthy. And we can always differentiate Tribounos rights in the Curia, which are neccessary, to Patrician rights, and say a Tribounos has the rights but not the rank name if we truly feel the need.

[Garbarsardar]

Because surely if we are unworthy we would not be Tribounoi? What really undermines it is the idea that one should feel pressurised into resigning from it ("You were not accused as being complacent and Quisling..."); what really undermines it is the idea that a Tribounos is not, while in his position, by definition worthy. And we can always differentiate Tribounos rights in the Curia, which are neccessary, to Patrician rights, and say a Tribounos has the rights but not the rank name if we truly feel the need.

Pressurised? I probably am, but I cannot speak for anyone but me. What "worthiness' as Tribounos has to do with "worthiness" as Patricians. You are not a tribounos for your participation in the Curia, you are a Tribounos because people believed you will make a good moderator. I think you are confusing two extremely different ranks.

And anyway, my decision is to submit myself to the approval of my peers. As it says in the Syntagma. If you don't want to do it no one compells you to.

[Tom Paine]

Patricianship has nothing to do with participation in the Curia, because until one is a Patrician one cannot participate in the Curia either. the two are very similar; one must uphold the rules to be suited for either, for instance.

[Garbarsardar]

Patricianship has nothing to do with participation in the Curia, because until one is a Patrician one cannot participate in the Curia either. the two are very similar; one must uphold the rules to be suited for either, for instance.

Spot the difference:

Tribounos - Magistrate
Any Triumvir has full powers to hire or fire Tribounos at will but, while retaining their powers, have delegated the elections of them to the Curia. Tribounos are voted into their position by the Curia (see Curia Elections section below). Citizens with one month experience in either Citizen rank are eleigible to stand for Tribounos. The total number of Tribounos, their assignments and powers are set by the Censor. If a Citizen is elected by the Curia then he will undergo a vote on Patrician status after gaining one month's experience. If they are already performing another function, as indicated in Appendix A, then this vote is initiated immmediately.

Patrician
Patricians are people who have proved they are good posters (as conferred by the rank of Civitate or Artifex), are interested in TWC and have made a good contribution to it, and who therefore deserve the right to have some say in the running of TWC.

* Patricianship is awarded for contribution to TWC (Appendix A). None of these contributions provide automatic Patricianship however, but they do allow you to be nominated. In addition to those contributions the member must have at least one month’s experience as a Citizen and have no active warnings at the time of the election. Patricians are expected to contribute to the developing the site. Involvement in the Curia is part of that.
* Patricians have the same rights as Citizens but are the only members who can vote on legislation and post in the Curia and Curia Vote forums.
* All Patricians can nominate Citizens in accordance with the Patronization Act. If a Citizen's nomination fails the Consilium de Civitate (CdeC) vote, the Patrician cannot patronise again for two months.
* Patricians are nominated to the CdeC by a member of Senior Staff or a member of the CdeC (who cannot then vote on the nomination). There is no patronage link (as per Patrician/Citizen relationship). Patricians are voted into their rank by the CdC on a 75% vote. Appendix A indicates possible criterion for promotion from Citizen to Patrician. It is not exhaustive.
* Either the CdeC or the Senior Staff can revoke a Patrician's status back to either Artifex or Civitate on a 75% majority vote.

:hmmm: