Importance of weapon length?

[ooji]

Just curious as to how big of a role weapon length plays in RTW. I mean it's pretty obvious for macedonian phalanx formations, but others less so. Say a shortswordsmen unit is fighting longswordsmen unit head on. Will the guys with long swords win with minimal casualties? How does it work?

[Boriak]

Longswords have greater lethality than shortswords so yes, it does make a difference to the body count.

[Bladvak]

you may want to install this :

http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...pen-source-mod

it's like a whole new world once you read the additional in-game info.

[Entropy Judge]

Longswords have greater lethality than shortswords so yes, it does make a difference to the body count.

you may want to install this :
http://www.twcenter.net/forums/showt...pen-source-mod
it's like a whole new world once you read the additional in-game info.

You guys do realize that neither one of you answered the actual question he asked, right? He's asking whether the length of the physical weapon being carried affects combat at all. He's not asking about lethality, and CT's mod doesn't appear to carry weapon length information either.

Personally, I *think* it does - the skeletons/models/whatever do, I believe, interact with each other, and I think the weapons are part of the skeleton - but I'm not very sure. Could be checked with Speudogardoz most easily, I think, as their pikes are noticeably longer than any other non-Phalanx weapon, and since they're still considered 'normal' units they wouldn't have any Phalanx-related weirdness. Just see if they start attacking a unit before the other unit starts fighting back.

[Bladvak]

You guys do realize that neither one of you answered the actual question he asked, right? He's asking whether the length of the physical weapon being carried affects combat at all. He's not asking about lethality, and CT's mod doesn't appear to carry weapon length information either.

I tried to answer it as best I could - give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man how to fish and you feed him for life.

I took the practical approach and gave him info on where to find units' weapon types, among other things - which is always useful. That being said, I understand what you're saying and here's a completion : I think that from the game point of view and calculating the interaction and resulting damage, it doesn't matter if the unit's description says the sword is short or long, the difference is made by the lethality. However, the game also have other, hidden info : I think among them, you can find heavy and light weapons, but I think that's to tell the game the speed with which the weapons attack (shortswords attack faster and longswords attack slower, afaik)

I used to watch these interactions and I can say that there is no difference in length between swords, you get longswords that are the same length as shortswords on the battlefield, the only difference between them is given by the lethality.

[Entropy Judge]

I tried to answer it as best I could - give a man a fish and you feed him for a day, teach a man how to fish and you feed him for life.

I took the practical approach and gave him info on where to find units' weapon types, among other things - which is always useful. That being said, I understand what you're saying and here's a completion : I think that from the game point of view and calculating the interaction and resulting damage, it doesn't matter if the unit's description says the sword is short or long, the difference is made by the lethality. However, the game also have other, hidden info : I think among them, you can find heavy and light weapons, but I think that's to tell the game the speed with which the weapons attack (shortswords attack faster and longswords attack slower, afaik)

I used to watch these interactions and I can say that there is no difference in length between swords, you get longswords that are the same length as shortswords on the battlefield, the only difference between them is given by the lethality.

The bolded has nothing to do with what he's asking, though; the underlined is closer. An example would be ... if two units with completely identical stats fought each other, but one's weapon (sword, axe, whatever) was 2' long and the other's was 6' long, would there be any difference between the two, or would the 6'-weapon user be able to attack first? Would the 6'-weapon user be at a disadvantage in melee (as he would in reality)? AFAIK, this isn't governed by the stats in the EDU.

[Titus Marcellus Scato]

Just curious as to how big of a role weapon length plays in RTW. I mean it's pretty obvious for macedonian phalanx formations, but others less so. Say a shortswordsmen unit is fighting longswordsmen unit head on. Will the guys with long swords win with minimal casualties? How does it work?

Weapon length is a factor, which gives the side with the longest weapon a better chance, but it's not the only factor. Case in point - Roman Marian legionaries with short swords versus Gallic Swordsmen with long swords. The Romans have better shields and better armour, giving them a better chance of survival than the relatively poorly-protected Gauls.

Or how about Hastati vs Gallic Levy Spearmen. The Gauls have a spear, much longer than a short sword - but no armour and a slightly smaller shield.

[Ownager]

Entropy is right, you aren't answering the question. I don't think it is prominent in swordsmen, but it is probably a factor in spearmen. Although to what length I'm not sure.....

[the man, the myth, the legend]

I would think a the weapons length is strictly cosmetic, of course you could try an experiment and give two units (one with short sword, one with longsword) the exact same stats, animations, lethality, etc. and see who wins in a custom battle.

edit: Shield and armour are purely cosmetic, if you gave, say, the Velites the same shield value as the Legionaries they would then have the same shield protection as the legionaries regardless of the actual size of their shield, its probably the same with weapons.

[locoace3]

But the thing is it's all based on their weapons and armor, so technically, it's not cosmetic, only if you change it. I mean a legionnaire isn't going to have a shield stat of 1, because he has a Scutum, it's going to be higher (3 i think?)

[Entropy Judge]

But the thing is it's all based on their weapons and armor, so technically, it's not cosmetic, only if you change it. I mean a legionnaire isn't going to have a shield stat of 1, because he has a Scutum, it's going to be higher (3 i think?)

If you change the stats in the EDU, Defense and Attack values can be set to anything (although anything above ... 63, I think it is, adds nothing). If you set the shield of one type of unit to 1, and the same type of shield on a different unit to 2 - assuming you've done it correctly - those are the values that they'll have in-game. Weapon Length and Attack Speed, however, are dependent on the Skeleton/Model AFAIK, and are independent of the EDU. What a shield or weapon looks like doesn't matter.

[Ownager]

Does anyone else have this problem of hearing armor clinks whenever their skirmishers are getting shot? I'm not sure, but I don't think linen sounds like metal when hit with an arrow.

[Ownager]

He was stating what the general difference was between short swords and long swords. Why even use long swords when you have short ones?

[Entropy Judge]

In-game, the difference is Lethality and Attack (which isn't always different). In real life, reach comes into play, as do other factors - depending on the armour, you may want a shorter blade that you can use in a grapple - and the original question is whether "Reach" is a thing in Rome or not.

[Ownager]

That, it is not. It used to be a thing with units like chosen axemen and Falxmen, but not in EB. The swordsmen are packed closer together, and it actually only matters based on who attacked who.

[Entropy Judge]

Do spears have greater reach than Axes? Swords? What about Swords vs Axes? Do the different lengths of the various spears make a difference?

[Ownager]

He said that spears were obvious. I completely disregarded them. Swords vs Axes? I'm not sure about that. I think its the same, and we are stressing over nothing.

[Entropy Judge]

He said that spears were obvious.

... No, he said that Macedonian Phalanx Formations were obvious, not "spears." Again, different spears do have different lengths they extend past the wielder.

I think its the same, and we are stressing over nothing.

So there probably is a difference.

[Ownager]

I guess Longer spears would get in contact first. Syrakusan hoplites would be able to get classical hoplites from further away.

Why does there have to be one? Is everything I say wrong? Is that the logic behind that post?

[locoace3]

What about say, Thrakian Spearmen vs. Gaulish Longswordsmen, i believe the spearmen use short spears, so does that even confer an advantage in who attacks first even if the difference were much smaller then say, Hastati Vs. Pike Phalanx?